England is running out of teachers

[noblegiraffe]

Or, to be clear, people who are willing to teach in schools. It has plenty of ex teachers who have vowed never to set foot in a school again.

While everyone seems to understand that you can't expect to see a doctor or dentist anymore, the message about not being able to expect your child to have a teacher anymore doesn't seem to have filtered through in the same way.

The number of cover lessons that kids are having is going through the roof. Some people think that if a kid has an adult in front of them then they are learning something, where kids know if they have a 'supply' timetabled that afternoon they are in for a doss lesson. Some people think that if a kid has a teacher for their subject that the teacher actually knows the subject being taught, which is increasingly not the case. Some people think that if lessons are being planned for those teachers and the teacher just has to 'deliver' them then that will be good enough, which is often not the case.

Exam classes at least used to be protected and given the 'good teachers', which is increasingly no longer the case, with Y11s reporting that they have a variety of supply teachers, even in core subjects.

There was a thread recently where an A-level student hadn't had a teacher for a year, wondering why the school hadn't done anything about it. We cannot magic up teachers! A-level students at my school are increasingly in the position of not having a teacher and having to teach themselves, and schools are now encouraged to put 'no teacher' on UCAS applications as relevant information for universities.

Recent threads about suggesting teachers need to be paid more to boost recruitment, or given a day off a fortnight to boost recruitment have attracted replies about teachers thinking they are special, or lazy, paid well enough already and having enough time off already.

But the education system is in crisis and something needs to drastically change as it's only getting worse.

The DfE's solution is to hire from abroad, at a time when the rest of government is seeking to reduce immigration.
https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/dfe-mulls-boost-international-recruitment

Job security in teaching is increasingly becoming a myth.

I think you'll find that the huge salaries help...Pretending that they don't would be stupid.

Strange, as I have a friend who is a NQT, she qualified almost a year ago but is yet to secure a permanent job. She has had many interviews but has not managed to secure anything. She is currently working as a supply.

At the top the salaries are huge. These are few.

The starting salaries for trainees and NQs in city US law firms is frankly obscene. But they represent a tiny fraction of solicitors.

Is she in the North East?

Looking at a map, teacher recruitment seems to be less of a problem there.

Agreed.
And when you look at the voices that shout most loudly 'don't you speak to my child like that..' both the kids and parents are normally a shambles.

The problem with career progression in teaching is that the more you progress up the ladder, the more you have to get involved in compliance tasks. Most people who go into teaching do it because they like people, creativity and interaction. The more you get into compliance the more joy is sucked out of you. So, it may be a reasonable starting salary, but it can be hard to progress long term unless you are willing to sell your soul to bureaucracy.

I’m in the process of applying for teacher training. Any tips going into this profession?

The reason people can't get jobs is because schools are reducing staff. We have two teachers leaving at Easter and neither is being replaced. We are axing A Level subjects and those teachers are leaving soon/ reducing their hours and will not need replacing.

At the top the salaries are huge. These are few.

I think we need to clarify what counts as a huge salary.

After all, Jeremy Hunt doesn't think £100k is a huge salary which would come as news to most.

Not all lawyers earn huge salaries. I know many solicitors who hate their jobs and many drop out of the profession altogether.

There are problems right across
my Scottish LA.

Supply staff here are recruited to the LA. We get texts telling us which schools have shortages in our sector and it’s up to us to phone any school we’re willing to work at.

I see schools putting out a request for a subject specialist to work certain days. Then the next call is for general supply for the same school. Then general supply, ‘days flexible’. There’s a crisis right across the secondary sector in the central belt and I am seeing the same behavioural problems no matter where I work.

<sigh> So there might be a link between working stressful long hours, not having a huge salary, and dropping out of the profession?

The average criminal defence solicitor earns about £40k. For that they will be expected to be on call and turn up at the police station in the middle of the night.

Didn't they recently go on strike for a 15% pay rise? More power to them.

Yes and I strongly suspect this is going to become increasingly common in future. To paraphrase a previous poster, putting a 'warm body' in front of a class will do. Qualified? Nah, don't worry about that. This is what it's come to.

I'm in my fourth year of teaching having changed careers in my forties. I will likely leave at the end of this year.

The money is awful, compared to other professions with a relative workload. That is a fact, as shown by @noblegiraffe 's depressing graphic. This reflects the government's view that teachers are not worth investing in. And sadly, as evidenced by some people on this thread, a pernicious view that we are lazy.

But it is NOT all about the salary.

Schools have perilously little funding. That means no resources, dwindling support staff and crumbling buildings.
SEN and neurodivergent children are on the rise. The lead times for EHCPs are absurd and the benchmarks for funding getting higher and higher. So we have more challenging kids than ever before, and nobody to support them. So they don't learn, and the rest of the class don't learn either.

Then there are the MATs. They follow their own rules and agendas. Workloads and expectations are high and getting higher, and some of the inter-staff bullying that goes on is horrific.

Behaviour is shocking. Putting aside the neurodivergent kids for a moment, there are a significant percentage of kids who behave exactly as they like as they have no sanctions or boundaries at home. If one more parent says 'he doesn't do that at home' or 'I've never seen her do that' as they shrug and walk off, I may scream. Kids need routine, structure, discipline (I don't mean hitting them ... that is horrendous).

Nobody has mentioned the issue of parents refusing to believe that their child has learning needs. I face this a lot. Without their cooperation, we can't get their child assessed. We are just expected to get on with it.

Until parents face up to their role in this, and politicians invest in educating the nation's youth, we're fucked.

That was the barristers who are self employed and many of them weren’t even earning the equivalent to minimum wage.

*People sign up to be lawyers or investment bankers knowing that they will have to work stupidly long hours under a lot of pressure.

Why do they still sign up to do it?*

In the case of the investment banker I know well, one of the benefits is the bonus. Which last year was considerably in excess of £100,000.

They are clearly very good at their job but could they teach Bob? Unlikely.

The sighing wasn’t needed. I haven’t said anything negative about teachers or denied that you have a point. I was merely pointing out that law isn’t necessarily what people think it is…

For me I feel my salary is reasonable, I’m a SENCO on just over £50k in south. It’s much lower than friends in private sector but comparable to nhs I think.

What’s going to break me is parents, some are so rude, then obviously their kids feel entitled to be disrespectful, it only works when we’re in partnership. Currently in a school that’s had awful recruitment issues and parents are angry and upset at what’s happened before. There’s a risk of a vicious cycle starting because I’m certainly not going to put up with this nonsense if it continues.

LEA are also a nightmare, they very much seem to be prioritising parents who shout loudly. I’ve got several kids completely out of education or not accessing anything meaningful at our school who need specialist placements, they’re being left for months. Im told there’s no places anywhere and they are unable to increase provision. LEA can’t open new schools anymore.

No, but the existence of lawyers who are not paid very much doesn't refute the existence of lawyers who are paid way more than teachers.

It doesn't refute the fact that high salaries are a motivator for people to go into professions that involve long hours.

Of course salary is a motivator. Or detractor.

Dd starts her gcse exams in a couple of weeks. On Thursday only 1 lesson was taught by her usual teachers, the rest by supply teachers. Friday afternoon her class, plus several other classes, were sent to the food hall and just told to revise as there was no one to teach. This is not acceptable. I don't blame the teachers. I am support staff in primary and I know how much behaviour has deteriorated even at a young age. I dread to think what secondary staff have to cope with.

Some people think supply teachers get a lesson plan.

In 6 years of supply I had precisely 11 lessons planned for me, all by the same teacher. She never actually returned and I spent the next 2 years there on supply having to fight for PPA time to plan the lessons as supply teachers don’t get PPA because the lessons are planned for them.

Quite.

Rather I guess my salary would be reasonable if the job didn’t involve being frequently in what feels like an impossible position. I’d rather get paid what I’m on and have reasonable demands than get a pay rise.