England is running out of teachers

[noblegiraffe]

Or, to be clear, people who are willing to teach in schools. It has plenty of ex teachers who have vowed never to set foot in a school again.

While everyone seems to understand that you can't expect to see a doctor or dentist anymore, the message about not being able to expect your child to have a teacher anymore doesn't seem to have filtered through in the same way.

The number of cover lessons that kids are having is going through the roof. Some people think that if a kid has an adult in front of them then they are learning something, where kids know if they have a 'supply' timetabled that afternoon they are in for a doss lesson. Some people think that if a kid has a teacher for their subject that the teacher actually knows the subject being taught, which is increasingly not the case. Some people think that if lessons are being planned for those teachers and the teacher just has to 'deliver' them then that will be good enough, which is often not the case.

Exam classes at least used to be protected and given the 'good teachers', which is increasingly no longer the case, with Y11s reporting that they have a variety of supply teachers, even in core subjects.

There was a thread recently where an A-level student hadn't had a teacher for a year, wondering why the school hadn't done anything about it. We cannot magic up teachers! A-level students at my school are increasingly in the position of not having a teacher and having to teach themselves, and schools are now encouraged to put 'no teacher' on UCAS applications as relevant information for universities.

Recent threads about suggesting teachers need to be paid more to boost recruitment, or given a day off a fortnight to boost recruitment have attracted replies about teachers thinking they are special, or lazy, paid well enough already and having enough time off already.

But the education system is in crisis and something needs to drastically change as it's only getting worse.

The DfE's solution is to hire from abroad, at a time when the rest of government is seeking to reduce immigration.
https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/dfe-mulls-boost-international-recruitment

[Flippingflamingo]

I’m a maths teacher, you couldn’t pay me enough to set foot in a classroom again!

[FineWordsButterNoParsnips]

@Flippingflamingo

I’m a maths teacher, you couldn’t pay me enough to set foot in a classroom again!

'It has plenty of ex teachers who have vowed never to set foot in a school again.'
😄

[noblegiraffe]

And kids are increasingly unwilling to go to school yet no one seems to be connecting it with the shitshow they might face if they turn up.

[arethereanyleftatall]

I've been a teacher for 30 years and I'm very very pleased I'm 50 now, not just starting as a teacher. I will be retiring the second I can afford to do so.

Basically, kids don't listen anymore. They are constantly distracted as a cohort. I'm guessing due to phones?

You can be telling them absolute golden nuggets of information, and, they're not listening.

Theres no point even trying any more.

Then there's the parents 'why hasn't my son learnt anything in your class'. Answer 'because he wasn't listening.'

[ToryHater]

I am in my first year as an upper KS2 ECT and I absolutely love it. The starting salary of £30k for a 21 year old in the north of England with non-stellar A levels is not too bad.

[Sherrystrull]

I don't blame children for not wanting to go to school. We have classes around 35 in our primary school which makes for a cramped, noisy atmosphere. Added to that we have many disruptive, violent and aggressive children that scare others. Plus a jam packed curriculum with no room to breathe.

[noblegiraffe]

@ToryHater

I am in my first year as an upper KS2 ECT and I absolutely love it. The starting salary of £30k for a 21 year old in the north of England with non-stellar A levels is not too bad.

Presumably you also have a degree?

[ToryHater]

@noblegiraffe

Presumably you also have a degree?

Yes, from a university that is often regarded as 'elite'.

[noblegiraffe]

Why did you not say that 'the starting salary of £30k isn't bad for someone with a degree from an elite university' then?

Because it doesn't sound quite as good?

[Sherrystrull]

I don't think the starting salary is bad at all. Certainly way more than I got 20 years ago. The question for me is that the wages don't go up that much. The government is not focused on retention at all. All my friends leapfrogged me years ago.

[Smilingbutdying]

I would love to teach but the government has made it clear they only want graduates from certain subjects, so I won't go to the expense of retraining

https://getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/funding-and-support/scholarships-and-bursaries

[itispersonal]

@ToryHater

I am in my first year as an upper KS2 ECT and I absolutely love it. The starting salary of £30k for a 21 year old in the north of England with non-stellar A levels is not too bad.

Good for you ! For not already being an ECT you has left or thinking about leaving!

Our 4th year student has already said she won't be going into teaching, and definitely not in the U.K.

Teaching can be a great career in a good school with realistic expectations but year on year the cohort of children are getting more difficult and this is in foundation!

The work load is my school is realistic, really supportive head but we are swimming each other. High SEN rates, staff not being replaced and pulled here, there and everywhere!

[Coincidentally]

@noblegiraffe

Why did you not say that 'the starting salary of £30k isn't bad for someone with a degree from an elite university' then?

Because it doesn't sound quite as good?

Why the attack? This is a new teacher her who so far is enjoying her job and recognising that the salary is good -especially if you consider it is for 40 weeks of the year. She may not stay in the job but will do it with enthusiasm while she is there. I am teaching as a second career and my salary is 52k plus good pension -can happily do this for the 8 years till retirement -holidays compensate for hectic term time -and in my previous career in business was just as pressured but without the long holidays.
The cynical teachers on here who are jaded and have never done another job do no-one any favours.

[noblegiraffe]

@Sherrystrull

I don't think the starting salary is bad at all. Certainly way more than I got 20 years ago. The question for me is that the wages don't go up that much. The government is not focused on retention at all. All my friends leapfrogged me years ago.

Starting salaries only seem relatively better because pay for experienced teachers is so abysmal.

You can see from this graph that starting salaries haven't kept up with the market either.

[Sherrystrull]

52k is great for a teacher! Are you on the management spine?

[noblegiraffe]

Why the attack?

Because saying that the starting salary is £30k for someone with not great A-levels isn't correct, is it?

[Sherrystrull]

What a depressing graphic @noblegiraffe

[Coincidentally]

No! No interest at all in management! Have worked here for 6 years -annual increments.

[noblegiraffe]

Isn't it just, Sherry. And yet we have hordes of people telling us that the pay is great. It clearly isn't competitive.

[Smilingbutdying]

@noblegiraffe

Why the attack?

Because saying that the starting salary is £30k for someone with not great A-levels isn't correct, is it?

But it is a good salary for a new graduate working 40 weeks.

[noblegiraffe]

@Coincidentally

No! No interest at all in management! Have worked here for 6 years -annual increments.

£52k isn't national pay scale then. Even in inner London, 6 years would only get you £47,666.

[noblegiraffe]

@Smilingbutdying

But it is a good salary for a new graduate working 40 weeks.

Where are all the teachers then?

This argument is utterly pointless when it is clearly not enough to recruit the teachers the country needs.

[Smilingbutdying]

@noblegiraffe

Where are all the teachers then?

This argument is utterly pointless when it is clearly not enough to recruit the teachers the country needs.

Probably feel the same as me. Want to retrain but the financial incentive isn't there unlike other subjects. They want teachers but clearly not all teachers are created equally.

[Benchfulldog]

@Coincidentally - that is not the standard UK state school rate, unless you have taken on additional duties.

[noblegiraffe]

@Smilingbutdying

Probably feel the same as me. Want to retrain but the financial incentive isn't there unlike other subjects. They want teachers but clearly not all teachers are created equally.

Well, not all teachers are in as serious a shortage as others. If you want to train in PE, there's an oversupply.

But then PE teachers are being drafted in to teach subjects like maths where there's a critical shortage.