Should we be educating young people about the danger of financial vulnerability?

[Brefugee]

Don't want this to be a TAAT but there is one running right now that is quite shocking.

Do we have a responsibility to young people - maybe in secondary school as part of their (what is it? PHSE?) lessons to learn or show how things like "common law marriage" don't actually exist? And that it is sensible to try to be as watertight as you can regarding finances both out of and within a relationship? And that leaving yourself open to poverty in your later years because you believed your partner wouldn't dump you (and children) without a penny?

How can we cut down on this happening?

Yes a teacher and yes I do mention it when appropriate.

However I wouldn't want school to be responsible for sharing this knowledge. It should be part of a story society wide education plan. Not another thing added to the burden of schools.

Or take out all the pointless shit like Pythagoras, fronted adverbials and Oxbow lakes etc and actually teach our young people some useful stuff in their day.

Not the time or place for a curriculum debate. Yes some of it is a bit meh.... BUT children deserve a good basis in learning from a variety of disciplines. Students need to be prepared for whatever comes next in terms of education or jobs.

Useful stuff is so subjective. Lots of 'useful' stuff is taught in school, people forget it and shock horror... Teenagers aren't really interested!

I agree. The fronted adverbial stuff is nonsense but not pythagorus or ox-bow lakes which are part of a wider knowledge. I had to use a slide rule in maths in the 60s - no use to me but to those doing physics or engineering later on they were essential at that time. We don't decide what children will do with their education in terms of career we give them the widest possible base to choose from. We can touch on relationships and finance but families and society have to play their part.

I am a teacher and it is only a segment as part of PSHE. Very much so a segment as there are so many other things deemed important to teach young people, as you’ll often see on here. I agree with most of the topics but I wonder how it’ll work practically. Bigger segments are things like contraception of course. I was a diligent student who got good grades and spent years studying algebra in its increasing complexity but I’ve forgotten all but the very basics. I definitely agree with posters who have pointed out it is very likely to be forgotten when it features in a couple of PSHE lessons. Of course many will say more time is needed on it but this applies to so many topics. We need to teach our actual subjects too. My historian colleagues already dread having a timetable with exam classes on Mondays due to things like bank holidays and training days. They don’t have enough time to cover their content as it is.

This is a silly idea & probably comes across as quite glib but how about a nationwide campaign regarding marriage?
Billboards, full page ads in papers, magazines, even on the back of public loo doors, HE establishments, etc.

For example,
'Marriage - it's not just a piece of paper, it's a legal contract'

''Common-in-law' marriage does not exist in the UK.'

'Without a legal marriage, you will have no rights in separation or death'

It wont address the risks of or explain financial vulnerability but it might make some people Google what is mentioned or at least think about their life situation?

It could be sponsored by UK law firms because let's face it, they make more money out of people being married than not.

It's clear from the link shared by @Haggisfish3 that the curriculum does cover this.

There is a whole list of things pupils should know by the end of secondary school, including:

• What marriage is, including their legal status, eg that marriage carries legal rights and protections not available to couples who are cohabiting or who have married, for example, in an unregistered religious ceremony

• The characteristics and legal status of other long term relationships

• the roles and responsibilities of parents with respect to raising of children, including the characteristics of successful parenting.

There's lots more and it looks pretty comprehensive to me, so let's hope that today's young people grow up better informed than their parents.

It’s not your remit to decide what is appropriate and why wouldn’t any school want to share valuable ‘knowledge’ about healthy financial awareness?

Of course it's in my remit to decide discussing marriage isn't appropriate in the middle of a maths lesson ffs.

But when discussing loans, investments, and life finances, we do discuss it.

People really don’t get the pressure teachers are under, esp when teaching maths and English. Not to dismiss the other/same pressures of other subjects of course! It isn’t like Dead Poets Society. Every line management meeting I have is about Progress 8. For those unaware, maths and English have double weighting and intervention culture is particularly a problem in these subjects.

Courts are also favouring 50/50 residency now compared to back in the day so now even child maintenance isn’t always payable. Women are also expected to work full time time now despite the ages of their kids too.

Is that a bad thing?

Depends on the specific circumstances and the specific children involved I guess. I’m making no moral judgement either way.

My post was in response to the OP saying laws don’t change with regards to marriage and I was giving examples of the way the law being applied actually has changed in the last 20-25 years, therefore illustrating why teaching it in schools isn’t very useful. You can teach a 15 year old the way things are now but in another 20-25 years when divorce might be applicable to them, who knows if anything they learnt today will still apply. It could cause more harm than good as they could rely on the outdated information they learnt and not think to research the lay of the land at the time of their marriage.

Women are also expected to work full time time now despite the ages of their kids too.

Is that a bad thing?

Contentious and even controversial on here but I think this is a bad thing, yes. (And I have a career and even a senior position so definitely not a SAHM.) Ideally, women could decide to work part time when their children are still quite young - if they want to do that - and childcare costs would enable them to genuinely make a decision to do what is best for them and their family, and not feel compelled to do something, whether that’s returning to work or feeling compelled to give up work because of a financial situation making work and childcare (especially of more than one child) unfeasible.

to get pedantic i did say laws don't change - and that is so. For sure the rules are applied differently regarding maintenance etc, but the law hasn't changed.

And also for sure each family circumstance needs to be looked at as a separate entity, but as pp mentioned: is it a bad thing that women as well as men are expected to work to support their children when it is necessary/possible? not in my book.

What i would prefer to see is in 20 years that the "he's left i'm homeless and destitute with 2 kids under 10" posts are gone. How do we do that? Education (at home, at school, in the public at large) and my question is what is the best way to get that message across? (pls note: i have not assumed the sex of the person being left destitute, although we all know the reality of the situation)

A reform of the housing market would help a lot.

to get pedantic i did say laws don't change - and that is so. For sure the rules are applied differently regarding maintenance etc, but the law hasn't changed.

Well to be pedantic back, several laws have changed - one being the introduction of civil partnerships for both gay and heterosexual couples which gives couples similar rights as marriage which is kind of an important one that you’re overlooking. It can literally provide so much protection for groups of people who would otherwise have none. Back when I was at school, I would have been taught that if you’re gay then there is no protection for you. Considering some women seem to have missed that common law marriage went out the window in the 1700s it’s entirely possible that some people could have missed this change too, especially if that’s what they learnt in school hence why sometimes teaching something in school can do more harm than good.

Another important change to the law was in 2009 when it became legal for same sex partners to both be listed on their child’s birth certificate, therefore allowing the other partner to be named a legal parent & giving them parental responsibility, rights and obligations in the event of a marriage breakdown. Back when I was at school I would have been taught that only the biological parent could be listed.

And also for sure each family circumstance needs to be looked at as a separate entity, but as pp mentioned: is it a bad thing that women as well as men are expected to work to support their children when it is necessary/possible? not in my book.

You’ve missed the point on this one, it’s irrelevant whether you think it’s a good thing or not in “your book”. The point is about information becoming out of date. Just like there can be good changes, there can also be bad ones too; it can go either way. The point is what is true today, might not be in 20 years and I don’t think you can argue with that.

It’s interesting though that you only picked on this one point to address but ignored the rest.

What i would prefer to see is in 20 years that the "he's left i'm homeless and destitute with 2 kids under 10" posts are gone.

Marriage doesn’t always provide a safety net to this though. What do you think happens when there are no significant assets in a marriage (people just living pay cheque to pay cheque or look at how many people lost their livelihoods and homes during covid) or one of the spouses is self employed and therefore able to manipulate their income levels and hide their money? Go over to the divorce board and see how many married women are being screwed over by this.

There are literally people with good professional jobs (teachers, nurses etc) who can’t afford to buy a home and are having to resort to food banks etc.

Marriage only offers protections if there is money available in the first place otherwise you’re just as screwed as the non married woman.

How do we do that? Education (at home, at school, in the public at large) and my question is what is the best way to get that message across? (pls note: i have not assumed the sex of the person being left destitute, although we all know the reality of the situation)

Well my suggestion was we teach children how to critically think in school so they can go through life protecting themselves in all aspects.

I would also suggest that we teach children to ALWAYS be able to support themselves and to NEVER rely on anyone else for their livelihoods as you never know what might happen.

I don’t think it’s a lack of education that’s the problem though, like I said earlier it’s women suffering with happily ever after / fairytale syndrome who think it will never happen to them. Even in the other thread going on about this, her family all warned her to get married but she ignored them and carried on regardless so she can’t claim to have been oblivious to the realities as people literally told her.

I literally know women who do research and due diligence in most aspects of their lives - Trustpilot before they use a new business, reviews on which phone to buy, reviews on which hotel to stay at, reviews on which restaurant to eat at, seeking personal recommendations before committing to a choice; they literally weigh up the pros and cons on nearly everything they do yet have blindly walked into starting families with men without a backward glance because you know, “love” and “he’d never do that”. It’s not even like they need to go see a solicitor or go to the library to look up information these days, it’s literally at everyone’s fingertips.

I’m not arguing that education is a bad thing or that change isn’t needed, I just think school is the place for broader education like critical thinking skills i.e. equipping children to engage their brain in all aspects of life.