Could teachers be replaced with robots?

[noblegiraffe]

This is increasingly being suggested as a solution to the critical lack of teachers, particularly at secondary school.

My general position is that we saw how pupils are not motivated to learn when left to their own devices at home over lockdown. As a teacher, a lot of my day is spent getting kids to do the work, in various ways.

This blog by Becky Allen "Will students feel motivated to work for the AI-masters?' is an interesting discussion of the issue. It refers to Animal Crossing making you feel guilty for neglecting your characters, the Duolingo owl encouraging you to keep a streak and so on. Personally, I find closing the rings on my Apple Watch the only thing that has motivated me to do regular exercise.

But what these things all have in common is that they are things that the student has opted into in the first place. Presumably there was some initial motivation on their part that just needs a nudge to keep going.

An important part of teaching is building relationships with the pupils on a human level. Can a student build a relationship with an AI? Well, definitely. But on a widespread enough scale for it to be more effective than humans interaction? Not sure.

However, would it be better than no teacher? Most likely.

https://rebeccaallen.co.uk/2024/01/13/artificial-incentives-will-students-feel-motivated-to-work-for-their-ai-masters/

I'm sure this is the future. The problem is a robot isn't as a good as a human yet, and sorry, but to be a blunt if your kid isn't that smart, it will have no chance

In which case, if the aspect of schools which are preparing children for the workforce is removed and your view of education is purely utilitarian, would kids need to go to school at all?

Well quite. If we get to a stage where we're able to use robots efficiently and effectively to train kids up in various useful processes, we'd be better off using those robots to train other robots!

I really love my job. I love maths, I love working with teenagers, I love working with (human) colleagues. I'm struggling to see an alternative, AI-lead provision in which humans can really thrive.

Side note: many schools (especially large academy trusts) have already removed a huge amount of autonomy from classroom teachers. Commercial SoW and resources are being churned out largely with the aim of maximising efficiency when working with a large proportion of non-specialist teachers. This already feels like a soulless, miserable way to teach and to learn. Once classroom teachers are not making any of their own decisions, it's a very small step to not bothering with humans at all.

I think the problem with 'study what you enjoy' is the assumption that kids are turned off school because they are studying things that they don't enjoy, and not that they just don't enjoy studying.

I think too the idea that you only study what you enjoy closes doors - how do you know you’ll enjoy poetry if you’re never exposed to it, if you never have to fight through your initial resistance to something new?

The reality is that in life we need to do things we don’t enjoy because they need to be done. There are a million different repetitive tasks in any job, we can’t decide we’re not doing them because it’s boring and we’d prefer to do something else. Part of education is developing the self discipline to do things we’d rather not.

So much of English teaching is about helping young people to learn to think critically and to respond appropriately, not just to texts but to people.

I'll never be a follower of the standard ppt, because that's not how I teach. But as Baircasolly says, that's where we're heading. And I don't think that is to anyone's benefit, except that of the clipboard wielding observer, checking that you're on the week 12 slide.

As a parent who absolutely loves learning it has been absolutely disheartening to see both my children leave secondary school having not enjoyed the experience. A very very large academy - in my opinion way too big for any real personal experience, too many kids just falling through the gaps both educationally and emotionally.

I am passionate about education and providing a good level for all children (I'd do away with private and faith schools). I would love to see a massive overhaul of the curriculum to provide something that more suited the world that our kids are growing up in.
I think that will involve the use of AI but to assist teachers not replace them. In my ideal world this would lead to smaller class sizes and therefore a better teaching and learning environment for teachers and pupils. The job would become more attractive. I like this world but it certainly won't be a reality under the current government.

I feel like if teaching was reduced to a job that a robot can do (essentially the delivering knowledge bit), you wouldn’t need robots to do it anyway because you wouldn’t have the teacher burnout situation we’re in now.

Of course this requires a whole system change. I think I’ve been quite clear that I think the whole system doesn’t work and needs changing.

@noblegiraffe what do you think about the idea of AI replacing teachers?

Im interested to know what you think as a teacher still in the trenches…

The problem is schools think GCSEs are the bees knees when they’re not. For many reasons. And even if they are, an engaged adult can get one faster than an unenthusiastic child
The problem is the people dip with in education by definition did well in GSCE and the old system and don’t have the imagination to cater for those who don’t.
And who sneer at ‘dad’s building company’ -says it all.

From what I have read / listened to, there isn't any expectation that 'robots' would replace human teachers. AI would be used, at an individual level, to create and deliver learning plans individual students. The AI would take the time to learn what each individual student needs and responds to, how they learn - and then design and deliver courses of study / education that meets those individual needs. They will talk communicate with them in whatever way works best for that student. Whereas a student in a class of 30 can only ever hope to get 1/30 of a teachers time and attention, with personalised AI teachers the student will get 100% of the teacher's time and attention. The proponents of this approach describe it as each pupil having their own teacher - one that has an intimate understanding of how they learn best and which is capable to delivering individualised lesson plans.

So why would you need classrooms or teachers in that context? If it's all delivered by individual devices, it can be done anywhere.

How it would work in practice I have no idea. Children still need to be parked somewhere while parents are working - as long as actual jobs exist that it. And obviously all the benefits of socialising with other children would be lost. But I don't get the impression that social skills are high on the agenda of the big AI creators.

As a maths teacher we already make a lot of use of online teaching resources - mathswatch marks the kids' work for them, there are videos that they can watch to help them, Wolfram-Alpha can solve a problem and give them step-by-step working, there are apps that can read handwritten maths and give answers.

So when I think about what I do in terms of maths teaching, presenting examples, going through working step by step, getting them to practice, walking around and spotting where they have gone wrong and providing correction or hints and providing increasingly challenging problems at exactly the right level to push them without breaking them - sure, that could all be replaced by AI. All of it. And it would be better than me because it wouldn't get tired and make silly mistakes or lose patience with the kid who asks for the 500th time what the title is, or that their pen has exploded or whatever.

Can it replicate my classroom where kids work on exercises and talk to each other about the work and check what they are doing is right and support each other? Not if they're all working on different things at their own pace. So that human interaction with peers would be lost.

Can it replicate the energy I need to create the relationships and dynamics whereby the kids are actually engaged with the work and motivated to complete it? I don't know.

So why would you need classrooms or teachers in that context? If it's all delivered by individual devices, it can be done anywhere.

The robot isn’t going to be able to tell an anecdote that brings the material to life, to support kids in group exercises that expands their learning and teaches cooperation or working with people who have different ways of doing things, or recognise different learning styles.

This is absolute nonsense.

AI is to writing what calculators are to maths. It presents a huge challenge for education.

The British Council did a lesson plan about this very subject:

https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/skills/reading/b1-reading/robot-teachers

I think this would work well in something like the French system, where teachers could be replaced with AI and the surveillants would still be there to keep order. Surveillants are like a cross between receptionists, security guards and dinner ladies - typically young themselves and on temp contracts, with only A level equivalents as qualifications. What has probably stopped this happening already is the low cost of teacheŕs: NQT salaries here were only recently increased to keep them above the minimum wage, and supply teachers in the private sector (of which I am one) didn't get a pay rise at all. As long as they can find people desperate enough to take these jobs, there's relatively little incentive to invest in AI - just as the Romans never bothered with labour saving technology because they had slaves. I guess that could change as the immigration crackdown cuts off the pipeline of cheap labour, and big tech continues to lobby the government. I don't think unions could or would do much, given their impotence vis à vis the recent pensions and benefits reforms - provided existing teachers were protected, of course.

All this applies, mutatis mutandis, to the UK. It wouldn't surprise me if you were the pioneers in "robot teachers", given the weakness of the public sector.

Also, I was in the bottom set in maths about a million years ago, and we had the analogue version of "robot teachers". We "taught" ourselves from books while the teacher invigilated, when she could be bothered to show up. No questions allowed.

It’s likely that this time next year we’ll have a different government. Could they turn this around? I remember the Blair government being remarkably interfering/micro-managing when it came to the public sector, but what if Labour took a different approach now?

I have worked in the French education system and it delivers massively better than the UK. The surveillance system means that reachers are professionals and respected as such.

This is a good question (can Labour turn things around) and the answer is probably no.

Labour have already indicated that they are not going to be making major spending pledges for the public sector and what is really needed to fix the problems in schools is not just more funding for schools but massive funding increases for all the support services that work with schools, in particular SEN. Councils are being told at the moment that they have to cut millions from their budget at a time when they have already cut spending for high needs children beyond what is remotely tolerable.

Labour are also making noises about curriculum reform. The problem with curriculum reform is that it is massively workload intensive. They need to be looking at reducing workload not increasing it. Progressive teaching ideas (which they tend to lean towards) also tend to put more work onto the teacher.

But mainly, education is in a bit of a death spiral. Teachers are leaving in increasing numbers but the numbers being recruited has fallen through the floor. This lack of teachers is putting more and more pressure on the remaining teachers who are burning out and also leaving. The state of the workforce is putting off people who may otherwise consider a career in teaching. There are no quick fixes there.

I think we are now in a situation where we need to be seriously looking at the question "How can we teach children without teachers?"

Teachers are leaving in increasing numbers but the numbers being recruited has fallen through the floor

Most is due to poor behaviour and very poor behaviour management.

Parents need to take responsibility for their children’s actions in school and at home.

A child who is hitting and swearing at home is also doing it at school.

I would put the money into temp boarding schools to change behaviour and attitudes.

We are talking 10 year olds that kick teachers - or leave classes swearing -

Ill give an example 10 year old out of control was sent to live with dad changed schools and behaviour massively improved - why because dad took charge and took a no nonsense approach - this child now has a future.

It’s likely that this time next year we’ll have a different government. Could they turn this around?

Could they? Maybe. Will they? I seriously doubt it. Governments want quick fixes, or things that look like they are fixing something. They won't commit to big, long-term changes, because they are complicated, risky, expensive and probably won't reach fruition until the party is no longer in power.

I just asked ds (Y11, predicted all 8s and 9s, wants to do maths, further maths, physics and computing A Level, loves techy stuff) what he thinks of the idea of being taught by a robot/AI. After he'd finished laughing (because apparently 'Older people LOVE bringing this up, and obviously it's not going to happen any time in the foreseeable future'), he said 'No, I want to be taught by a person. Because I'm not a psycho'.

So there's my survey of one . I'm pretty certain virtually all my students would say the same, even though they obviously have some teachers they don't like very much.

I just asked ds (Y11, predicted all 8s and 9s, wants to do maths, further maths, physics and computing A Level, loves techy stuff) what he thinks of the idea of being taught by a robot/AI. After he'd finished laughing (because apparently 'Older people LOVE bringing this up, and obviously it's not going to happen any time in the foreseeable future'), he said 'No, I want to be taught by a person. Because I'm not a psycho'.

But what is interesting about his subject choices at A-level is that they are the ones where it is going to be very difficult to find teachers to teach them to him.

He might want to be taught by a person, but our computing A-level students are having to teach themselves because there's no teacher.

So would he prefer an AI teacher or no teacher?

@noblegiraffe im sorry but I think your last post is stupid.

The answer to ‘we can’t find maths teachers’ isn’t ’let’s Bring AI’ or ‘let them teach themselves’
1- because we know this isn’t as efficient
2- AI isn’t there yet to be able to do this (that teen is perfectly right there)
3- AI cost money!!
4- a much better and quicker solution is to make the job attractive instead.

Fwiw there is a similar situation with teachers in france, esp in maths/science.
Theyve remodel the entire A level to allow for less teachers available, saying the system was too costly. You know what? They still can’t find enough teachers because they never looked at the real issue in the first place.

The only thing that ‘using AI to teach’ would do is create a situation where the private sector will thrive instead. Creating a nice two speed system.
Im nit sure this is the solution really.

I don't think noblegiraffe is advocating for being replaced by AI. But she's right that there's a huge problem with some subjects.

PE still trains huge numbers of trainees who can't get jobs. Maths and physics and computing can't get close to the numbers needed.