Is English a nationality/culture/ancestry?

[Dami090496]

I was born and raised in London to a totally immigrant background.

I currently still live in London.

I have a stronger attachment to English over British.

I identify with it more in terms of a national identity and culture.

Anyone agree or feel this way?

I feel slightly more British than English, and I feel like a Londoner before either of them.

One part of my family has a surname that means we are descended from the Normans. My maternal grandmother was a Pale of Settlement refugee at the turn of the 19th/20th century. I think it just shows we are all immigrants somewhere if you trace back far enough. Different parts of our culture, lived experiences etc. mean different things at different times. I daresay I come across as English but a good European. But I love finding out about other aspects of heritage and how some family traditions have a root in those times. What we eat at New Year and a saying we use that my grandmother said in English but was translated from her mother tongue. And as regards to the Normans, my late father totally looked like he was straight outta central casting for the Norman Conquest.

Both sides of my family are all traced back to the 17th century in the same area of England, which is as far as I could go before parish records stop. I think to be English is both an ethnicity, with its own culture, and a nationality that people can claim if they want to. If we do the tone-deaf "we're all immigrants" thing, pretty much everyone in the world would be African. It's important for people to feel that they belong - politicians ignoring Englishness as an ethnicity & identity just creates division, when we're aiming for multiculturalism.

It’s all of those things.

I think that most people when asked the country they came from would say England, Scotland, Wales, Nothern Ireland (or Ireland.) I’m not sure many would say ‘I’m British’ outside the script of a kooky American sitcom. They are all strong national and cultural identities l. I can’t really conceive what a British identity would look like.

When I’m asked where I’m from, I say England. If I’m asked if I’m English, I l’d probably say I’m English and French. French is one of my cultural identities, passports and languages, as my mum is French. I’m not from France. I’m not sure what my kids would say ( 1/4 English, Irish, French and South African)- English I think unless they were feeling contrary!

All three, really.

If you are born in England, then you have English (well, technically British) nationality. This is the legal definition.

If your ancestors over the past few hundred years were predominantly English, then you are of English ethnicity. This is the genetic definition.

If you grew up with/partake in English customs, dress, food, traditions, music, art, etc, then you are culturally English. This is the sociological definition.

I was born and grew up in London, and lived there until I was 19. DM from the South coast; DDad first generation from NE. His fatter was an immigrant; his mother Scottish. In fact my other gm was Scottish too, coincidentally.

Ten year later my father had died and my mother had also moved out. My siblings and I had all left London. Although London is familiar to me, I feel no affection for it.

As an adult I've lived in the NE of England, S Wales and have settled in Yorkshire. My dc were both born in Yorkshire . Over the last 30 years I've mostly holidayed in Scotland, N Wales, and NI.

I consider myself British, rather than English.

I would always say my nationality as British, but I am English if someone asked

I think that most people when asked the country they came from would say England, Scotland, Wales, Nothern Ireland (or Ireland.) I’m not sure many would say ‘I’m British’ outside the script of a kooky American sitcom.

I'd say "I'm from the UK" or "I'm British". That's what my passport says, and that's how I automatically think of myself. I rarely hear someone describe themselves as "English" unless someone wants to make a particular point.

I was actually thinking about this the other day as a couple of surveys I've done recently have had separate options for British and English and I've automatically answered British.

I'm 1/4 Scottish (borders) and 3/4 English (Yorkshire and Lincolnshire) and was brought up in East Anglia and now live in London.

It makes perfect sense to me that you'd consider yourself English. I am Scottish, there are many many elements of the 'British' culture that mean nothing to me as a Scot and never have. I don't expect you as a Londoner to identify with elements of Scottish British identity either.

I feel British, but there are English Welsh and Irish connections in my family history. So the only part of the UK I don't feel a connection to is Scotland.
DH probably feels 100% English

That’s interesting. I’d have thought the opposite. I feel a bit uncomfortable with ‘British’. I just asked my daughter what nationality she is and she said ‘English’ (despite being only 1/4 English.)

Her cousin is staying with us awaiting the arrival for Christmas of his siblings and Israeli/American mum and his Irish/ South African (but British) father from home in Connecticut. I asked him and he went for something like ‘it depends on who’s asking and whether it’s a special occasion’ which is quite a good answer in his case!

I am British. My family are from Scotland and wales and I live in London. I would always say British rather than English, Scottish, or Welsh.

I'm Scottish.

I was born and brought up in Scotland, my parents and grandparents etc similarly so for generations (with the occasional drop-in from the north of England / Northern Ireland every now and again).

I'm sure if I looked hard enough I'd find some Scandi blood, as my grandfather's ancestors were from Sutherland, in the far north.

Even better than that, though, I'm Glaswegian. 😄

I think being English is a culture. It might not be dissimilar to other culture of the British Isles. However it almost seems taboo to refer to it as a culture.

Are you the same poster who asked this recently? I’m sure I read something like this recently almost word for word.

Yes, you posted this recently. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4960428-am-i-right-to-identify-as-english-with-nigerian-heritage?page=1

I only hear people who are English referring to themselves as such. I've not come across someone with an immigrant background referring to themselves as English. Each to their own. But I'm not sure even what English culture really entails.

I think it depends on where you regard as home. Where you go back to when everything else goes tits up. Where you know you will find friends. Where you fit.

I regard myself as English first, then British, but I'm from a long line of Wiltshire peasants, going back centuries. Both my dm & df were born in England of English parents, I've lived in England most of my life, went to school here, own a house here and raised my child here. It would be hard for me to claim to be anything else.

Imagine a woman from the English countryside, and imagine a woman from the countryside of another country - let’s say India for example. It quickly becomes apparent what English culture is:

• Dress - the English woman will likely be wearing something like jeans and a jumper. The Indian woman more likely traditional Indian clothing eg some kind of Sari.
• Food - the English woman will likely tuck in to a Sunday roast at the weekend, whereas the Indian woman will more likely eat curry, daal, naan/roti/rice etc.
• Religion - the English woman will likely be irreligious, or perhaps a mild CoE type. Either way, religion is unlikely to play a very large role in her life. The Indian woman is far more likely to be religious, and it is likely much more important to her.
• Art/culture - the English woman likely watches Western films, maybe keeps up with one or two soaps like emmerdale or coronation street, and probably listens to Western music. The Indian woman is more likely to watch Bollywood films and listen to Indian music.

Of course, there will be some cross over - the English woman probably enjoys a chicken korma, and the Indian woman might enjoy cultural exports like Doctor Who or the Beatles. But on the whole, their lives will look quite different to one another, due to their different cultures.

Why is that ‘tone deaf’? As far as I’m personally concerned, it’s just one of many ways we are all citizens of the world first and foremost. I don’t hold with prejudice, I don’t want to stop boats or make it difficult for populations to go on doing what they have always done - constantly change

I think that most people when asked the country they came from would say England, Scotland, Wales, Nothern Ireland (or Ireland.)

Both dh and I tend to say British because the other labels don't really fit.

I was born in England but left when I was 2. Had I been born 2 months earlier I would have been born in a different country altogether. One part of my father's family seem to have been in the same Hampshire village forever but the rest of my ancestry is a mixed bag including Irish, Roma, Russian and Welsh. I grew up being dragged around continental Europe at the whims of the Ministry of Defence. I currently live in Scotland but don't consider myself Scottish and neither do the "locals". I regularly get asked "where I'm really from" and guesses include Italy/France/Poland/Russia and Turkey but never England.

Dh has a Scottish parent and a Northern Irish one. British for him encompasses both those things although interestingly his mother describes herself as Irish and his father would say Scottish I think.

Our children would say they are Scottish as that's where they were born and are currently being raised. That may change with time.

I think there has to be a degree of flexibility involved. I do think at times British is a loaded word but I don't see how else to accurately describe myself without getting into too much detail.

Of course it is. This is a strange question.

It's tone-deaf because it ignores the very real needs and experiences of first / second generation immigrants, while also dismissing English culture. I get sick of our flag and customs being mis-used by the far right and ignored by the far left.

Hmm, would never say it in a context where it could mean that.

As for flags - there’s a left/ right difficulty Thatcher gave us around the Last Night of the Proms that’s nearly gone away now. So, yes, we need sanity in that area