UPF damage and baby formula

[Hobert]

I've been reading a lot about the damage that UPFs can do to our bodies and I don't seem to have seen formula mentioned much.

Given that formula fed babies have a 100% UPF diet for the first six months of their lives, wouldn't we expect to see a greater disparity of health outcomes between breastfed and formula fed infants? I know UPFs have been tentatively linked to worse brain health but that doesn't seem to be appearing in the infant feeding studies. Does anyone know if formula is a (uniquely?) benign UPF or is the damage just not being found.

Cool - another formula feeding bashing thread.

My eyes cannot roll any further back in my head.

Get a job/hobby/read a book and piss off.

Sorry really didn't mean it to be a bashing thread - it was meant to be a "are we sure UPFs are so bad" thread.

Oh here we go again ...

I don’t know but it’s an interesting question. Maybe the studies are difficult to do because few babies are exclusively fed one or the other for very long, and there are lots of other variables that might complicate the picture.

Has there ever even been a study following a group Fo infants all the way through to adulthood and old age as unless there’s been on done on a large scale how can we keep saying there’s no difference in people who were bf or ff ?

Well yes BF is obviously much healthier, but we are not allowed to say that nowadays.

I think it's an interesting question too. You could message that chap who's just written Ultra Processed People? The Van Tulleken brother.

What's the alternative if babies can't have breast milk for whatever reason? What happen pre - formula days? Did they just die?

Just googled the ingredients in SMA. Pretty shocking

Whey Protein (Milk), Vegetable Oils (Sunflower, Rapeseed), Lactose (Milk), Skimmed Milk, Long Chain Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids (DHA (Fish Oil), AA (Mortierella Alpina Oil)), 2'-Fucosyllactose (2'FL), Calcium Citrate, Potassium Citrate, Magnesium Chloride, Potassium Hydroxide, Emulsifier (Soya Lecithin), Potassium Chloride, Choline Bitartrate, Acidity Regulator (Citric Acid), L-Phenylalanine, Sodium Phosphate, Sodium Chloride, Vitamin C, Calcium Hydroxide, Taurine, L-Histidine, Inositol, Nucleotides (Cytidine-, Disodium Uridine-, Adenosine-, Disodium Guanosine-5'- Monophosphate), Antioxidants (Tocopherol-Rich Extract, Ascorbyl Palmitate), Ferrous Sulphate, Zinc Sulphate, Vitamin E, L-Carnitine, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Copper Sulphate, Thiamin, Vitamin A, Riboflavin, Vitamin B6, Manganese Sulphate, Potassium Iodide, Folic Acid, Sodium Selenate, Vitamin K, Vitamin D, Biotin, Vitamin B12

Formula-fed babies only have a "100% UPF diet", if you want to call it that, for 6 months. If you live to 80, that's a tiny fraction of your life. I imagine if you're formula fed and then continue eating only processed foods then there would be big disparities in health outcomes compared to someone who's had a lot of processed food for a short period on a background of an otherwise healthy, balanced diet. In the latter person, I imagine the effects of a few months of formula would be minimal.

Do all the breastfeeding martyrs ever consider than maybe some women desperately wanted to breastfeed and couldn't for whatever reason and had to formula feed and find it a little bit tiresome/offensive when we're constantly judged and criticised for it. I would have loved to breastfeed but I sadly couldn't and it was either formula feed or let my baby starve so I made the obvious choice. Why don't you all jog on and take your Mum shaming elsewhere because it's boring now.

Why is it much healthier? Apart from the (I think) 6 weeks post birth where you pass on your immunities?

I have two. One was breastfed for 6 months, the other for 24 hours.

The one who was breastfed for far less time is healthier (so far). I'm sure it's just pot luck.

Well said @MrsSamR - they made me feel shit over a decade ago and occasionally still do. As my Health visitor at the time said, he needs fed and that's that.

What's the alternative if babies can't have breast milk for whatever reason? What happen pre - formula days? Did they just die?

Yes, lot's of them did or managed to make it through on other milks.

@Alsobeyondshit What's the alternative if babies can't have breast milk for whatever reason? What happen pre - formula days? Did they just die?

Yes. Same as in many parts of the rural developing world where formula is still not available / affordable. My mum (not raised in the UK) left school at 13 to go to work so that her family could afford powdered evaporated cows milk for her baby sister as her - extremely malnourished - mum wasn't producing any breastmilk. But obviously the baby died. My cousin now works in healthcare in sub-Saharan Africa and sees the same story over and over again.
The issue of formula marketing / pricing in poor nations is a whole other rage-inducing issue.

I am not suggesting we should ban formula or anything I just find it weirdly absent from the somewhat hysterical UPF thing. FF babies are a subset of the population that seem to be managing fine on exclusively UPF - why isn't this significant?

I am sure there has been an enormous more amount of thought put into formula vs eg so called vegan bacon.

😢 @OnSusansFloor

Messaging Chris von Tulleken is a good idea. Has anyone read his book?

People on this thread are not having a pop at mums who formula feed. I fed one baby by breast and one by formula. They are both fine! But I’d still like to know.

I mean. Look at this ingredients list

Dried glucose syrup, refined vegetable oils (high oleic sunflower oil, coconut oil, rapeseed oil, sunflower oil), L-arginine L-aspartate, L-leucine, L-lysine acetate, L-glutamine, L-proline, emulsifier (E472c), L-valine, glycine, L-isoleucine, dipotassium hydrogen phosphate, L-threonine, L-phenylalanine, L-tyrosine, L-serine, L-histidine, L-alanine, calcium phosphate dibasic, tripotassium citrate, sodium chloride, calcium carbonate, choline bitartrate, L-cystine, calcium glycerophosphate, L-tryptophan, calcium citrate, magnesium chloride, oil from Crypthecodinium cohnii, L-methionine, calcium phosphate tribasic, oil from Mortierella alpina, magnesium L-aspartate, inositol, L-ascorbic acid, antioxidants (sunflower lecithin, ascorbyl palmitate), taurine, ferrous sulphate, zinc sulphate, L-carnitine, DL-alpha-tocopherol acetate, uridine 5-monophosphate sodium salt, cytidine 5-monophosphate, nicotinamide, calcium D-pantothenate, inosine 5-monophosphate sodium salt, adenosine -monophosphate, guanosine 5,monophosphate sodium salt, copper sulphate, thiamin mononitrate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, retinyl acetate, potassium iodide, manganese sulphate, pteroylmonoglutamic acid, phytomenadione, sodium selenite, chromium chloride, sodium molybdate, D-biotin, cholecalciferol, cyanocobalamin.

How could any of that be good for child?

Oh wait. It's Neocate. 🙄

What's the alternative if babies can't have breast milk for whatever reason? What happen pre - formula days? Did they just die?

Depends what you mean by "can't have breastmilk" - if by that you mean the mother can't or won't breastfeed, there used to be the option to hire a wet nurse to feed your baby (as well as being a nanny or whatever). Nowadays there are organisations that facilitate breastmilk donation and sharing at your own risk.

Personally I think wet nursing needs to become a thing again. It could be safe if the person breastfeeding has been thoroughly health checked and screened etc. No more dangerous than feeding powdered milk from another species out of a can anyway.

How could any of that be good for child? Oh wait. It's Neocate.

Are you saying that it is good or it isn't? Sorry I don't follow.

Completely agree @MrsSamR . I desperately wish I could have breastfed my son, but I couldn’t. He ended up seriously unwell in hospital being fed formula through a tube, partly because I and the community midwives were so fixated on breastfeeding being the ‘better’ option, when it clearly wasn’t working for us. I had to choose between him literally starving (which probably is what happened to babies in the past if their mothers couldn’t breastfeed), or being fed ‘UPF’ formula. The pressure and judgement around how babies are fed is insane.

What an odd thread, the OP is asking about UPFs and not criticising formula??

I agree OP - if UPFs were so bad then wouldn’t we expect to see FF babies at a significantly worse position health wise at this point?

Yes this is true, however for every mother that desperately wants to breastfeed but sadly can't , there are probably about 10 women that choose not to. Some of the excuses I have heard, I want Dad to have a shot. (Sorry baby is not a toy doll) if this were really true then there is the expressing milk option. I want to have a night off, is another trotted out favourite. I would like to resume drinking my wine every evening. Lets not pretend that all women choose not to breastfeed for entirely reasons beyond their control.

I was brought up on soya formula and was still being given it to drink when I was 3 or 4 and even after that DM continued to use it to make dairy free puddings for me. First ingredient in the list is Glucose Syrup. Soya is also a problematic ingredient.

I have ulcerative colitis.

I was hellbent on breastfeeding my DD due to my health issues which I do wonder if might have been based on the soya/glucose syrup upbringing. Even despite being the most determined you can possibly imagine to breastfeed, DD ended up on formula top ups due to my low supply.

I've just added this last bit to show I'm not formula-bashing for the sake of it and I know it's not a choice for everyone.

That’s not what this thread is about at all. If no one questions the things that the multinational foods corps tell us are ok to consume then we will continue to have bad diets. We need to hold them accountable and we need our governments to hold them accountable. That means questioning everything that they do and say. If it turns out that formula could be produced without some of the UPF ingredients (but at a higher cost to the manufacturer) then isn’t that a good outcome for everyone? But if we continue to be told we can’t discuss it because it offends people then nothing will ever change.