Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

Is this benefit fraud?

262 replies

Gingerangel · 06/12/2022 15:57

Just found out a friend of mine who is about to come into a large sum of money is intending to hide this money in a relatives bank account and not declare it to the DWP and have her relative just give her the cash as and when she asks for it. She’s doing this to hide it from the benefits people…

I was worried about her and told her that I think she might get into trouble doing this however she’s insisting on going ahead with this and thinks the DWP won’t notice anything is amiss. Is this benefit fraud? Can she get into trouble? And has anyone else done something like this and got away with it?

OP posts:
WiddlinDiddlin · 06/12/2022 17:55

Surely the brother will have to declare it and pay tax on it.

I can understand why someone would want to do this - benefits like UC will stop very swiftly and next time she claims, her spending would be scrutinised very closely and that scares people.

In her shoes, I would work out what I want to spend it on, say house deposit, repairs, new vehicle, new white goods etc.

All of these are reasonable things to spend large sums of money on, so would not be penalised.

Then I think she can put some of it into child savings, Junior ISA's etc (She'd need to look up which ones were ok as far as benefits are concerned, she can't just give it all to her kids).

Then yes, whatevers left over she'd have to suck it up and live on that until it runs out - as long as she keeps receipts or uses debit card to pay for things she will have a paper trail to back up what shes bought and as long as she isn't silly, and doesn't go round buying things to sell on or gifting money to people, she should be fine and can re-claim when it runs out.

If she gets caught, and she can... hiding these assets in someone elses bank account, then yes she will be in deep shit and will have to pay back benefits, may not be able to claim again for some time.

WestEndGirl222 · 06/12/2022 17:56

How certain is she that the ex will even pay the money over to her brother?

As others have said, there is still a record of an asset that she 50% owned and it being sold.

If investigated, how will she explain the money coming in from her brother when she requests it?Is she just going to have cash all the time?

YouLookinSusBro · 06/12/2022 17:56

Very bizarre (and fraudulent). Where is she living now? If she part owns a house she's unlikely to have been able to claim housing benefit.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Benefits
1Wanda1 · 06/12/2022 17:57

Yes it's benefit fraud and more to the point, how is she ever going to claim that the money wasn't a gift to her relative if they just refuse to give it to her when she asks? "I gave it to them to defraud the DWP" is not a particularly attractive basis for a claim.

WestEndGirl222 · 06/12/2022 17:57

If it's a significant amount of money, why would she need to keep claiming the benefits anyway? That's just pure greed.

ganachee · 06/12/2022 17:58

For those saying it’s fraud, those with knowledgeable lawyers know trusts such as discretionary trusts can be set up that can place inheritance in there so any state benefits are not affected. So people with money and foresight/knowledge can already do such things.

1Wanda1 · 06/12/2022 17:59

And yes, if DWP found out they would be able to prosecute her, for the reasons (deprivation of capital) that other posters have highlighted.

Original poster
Gingerangel · 06/12/2022 17:59

YouLookinSusBro · 06/12/2022 17:56

Very bizarre (and fraudulent). Where is she living now? If she part owns a house she's unlikely to have been able to claim housing benefit.

She’s in a council house with her 2 children

OP posts:
Fleurdaisy · 06/12/2022 18:00

Gingerangel · 06/12/2022 16:18

Well I don’t know if there will be any paper trail. Her ex husband is selling a house they both own, and he is paying half the amount made from the sale into her brothers bank account. It’s a large sum of money.

Does anyone know if she would get into trouble if DWP found out? Is she breaking the law if it’s never actually been in her account. I know people can get into lots of trouble with benefits fraud like prison even. She has 2 children so this would be a terrible outcome. She’s my best friend but she has stupidly told a few other people 🙄… She is very trusting

Legally it would be fraud. By claiming benefits she has agreed to inform DWP of any change in her circumstances ( which would include getting a paid job, getting married, coming into a large sum of money)
The money is legally hers, and therefore should be declared.
How will DWP find out? If they have cause to think she is committing fraud they and the police can investigate , with a property sale there’s a paper trail. They may choose to pursue it, they may not.
If they do and she is taken to court and found guilty she has a criminal record. I don’t know if her punishment would be a fine, community payback, a suspended sentence or an actual sentence.
But to the letter of the law she’s committing fraud. It’s her choice whether to be a benefit cheat or not.

Takeitonthechin · 06/12/2022 18:00

Depends on which benefits said friend gets, if it's tax credits and it's inheritance, said friend doesn't have to declare it and doesn't have to hide it in another persons bank account.
If on the other hand they claim UC, there is only a certain amount you can have before it needs declaring to HMRC.

OldFan · 06/12/2022 18:01

It is technically benefit fraud of course, at least if it would've taken the amount in her bank over £8000 if she had put it in there. But I think she would get away with it.

I'll do the same if I come into any money.

DaSilvaP · 06/12/2022 18:01

She is unlucky.
If she had few 100 millions and wanted to hide most of it, there would've been as her door a queue of reputable accountancy firms, at each other's throats, vying to sell her some "bullet proof" scheme.

She is lucky.
Stupidity is not an indictable offence. She would've deserved the full tariff for not knowing when and where to talk or not to talk!

Proudofitbabe · 06/12/2022 18:02

It's obviously fraud to hide the money she could be using to fund herself, in order to claim state handouts. FFS I'm paying taxes to effectively give pocket money to people with more spare cash than me! Maddening that anyone acts like this.

MrsMoastyToasty · 06/12/2022 18:02

Is it a means tested benefit?

If the answer is yes, then it is a potential fraud.

If it's no ( for PIP etc) then you can earn millions and it won't be fraud.

YouLookinSusBro · 06/12/2022 18:02

Gingerangel · 06/12/2022 17:59

She’s in a council house with her 2 children

Show quote history

Then I suspect she's already commiting fraud. Was her name actually on the house that is being sold?

And to the person who mentioned inheritance in trust.... totally different scenario

OldFan · 06/12/2022 18:02

There's only a certain amount of savings you can have in your bank before it effects your UC or income-based ESA if they find out about it (which is unlikely.)

camdenn · 06/12/2022 18:05

QueenConsort · 06/12/2022 16:01

It's deliberately depriving yourself of assets so technically yes but no idea how they would know.

This is true

They have ways of finding out, they have legal powers to arrest under caution and seek court warrants eg to request information from the bank. This type of fraud is the most frowned upon tbh, cause your friend actually has the means to pay for her life without benefits. It’s not like someone accidentally forgetting to report something but still being entitled to claim benefits if they did declare that change on time. It’s likely a large payment will reduce UC to nil.

but overall I think your main concern is this person running off with your money ! I wouldn’t trust anyone with a large sum of my money. All it takes is one occasion where they think to spend your money with the intention to top the money back up later, for them to forget boundaries and use it more often and sever the friendship. It also can cause issues for them, like just say they were trying to buy a house with a bunch of unexplained income they may not be able to use? Also it could trigger bank money laundering policies

ganachee · 06/12/2022 18:05

ganachee · 06/12/2022 17:58

For those saying it’s fraud, those with knowledgeable lawyers know trusts such as discretionary trusts can be set up that can place inheritance in there so any state benefits are not affected. So people with money and foresight/knowledge can already do such things.

Sorry I wrote the above not realising it’s not an inheritance she is receiving.

AxolotlEars · 06/12/2022 18:06

Yes, it's fraud....unless of course she is giving her brother the money and it is his! If the money went into her account and then to his there would be a trail. You have to supply bank statements randomly that show it. Different benefits have different rules about capital and some are given regardless of capital. If you intentionally get rid of capital to maintain a benefit it is fraud. If you have a pile of money paid into your account and spend a chunk on a car that isn't fraud if you need a car.
Yes, she could go to prison as people have. Yes, you could report it. I know someone who did this and the person on the telephone help line for benefit fraud said that it was her word against the person who claimed the benefit.

Msloverlover · 06/12/2022 18:08

She’s happy to stay in a council house, although she will have half of the outright sale of a house in a good area (so presumably oils buy a house in a not so nice area pretty much outright). FFS. She needs to get on mumsnet and read the posts that desperate women are writing about their rent increases and really think hard about her choices. She is 100% not a struggling single mum.

OldFan · 06/12/2022 18:09

You have to supply bank statements randomly that show it

Some do occasionally but it's actually quite rare. I've been asked for the last three months' statements randomly once in twenty years. And it's only three month's worth so she'd be ok if it'd been longer than that.

GUARDIAN1 · 06/12/2022 18:11

Yes it's fraud.

ThreeFeetTall · 06/12/2022 18:12

@palygold sorry I thought you meant why would someone want to keep the money and still claim Grin was a bit confused as seems obvious to me too!

DuplicateUserName · 06/12/2022 18:16

So she's getting a decent payout from a house her and her ex owned outright in a nice area, and she wants to fraudulently take tax payers money too?

Why is she so greedy do you think?

She sounds horrible.

Mygosh · 06/12/2022 18:16

My mum worked for a solicitor. There were cases of beneficiaries recieving set amounts of money each month to avoid losing their benefits. It was totally legal. However, this probably depends on the amount of money and the type of benefits being claimed. She should get some legal advice. It seems like she will spend, what could be an investment opportunity on day to day living expenses.