Is this benefit fraud?

[Gingerangel]

Just found out a friend of mine who is about to come into a large sum of money is intending to hide this money in a relatives bank account and not declare it to the DWP and have her relative just give her the cash as and when she asks for it. She’s doing this to hide it from the benefits people…

I was worried about her and told her that I think she might get into trouble doing this however she’s insisting on going ahead with this and thinks the DWP won’t notice anything is amiss. Is this benefit fraud? Can she get into trouble? And has anyone else done something like this and got away with it?

It would have taken the most simplest of Googles OP to find out this answer yourself

and yet you decided to start a thread on mumsnet in Chat

why?

You realise many single parents on UC actually work and will therefore qualify for a mortgage? They just aren't allowed to save a deposit.

Speaking for a friend, right? You’re a bit too invested. Of course it’s benefit fraud. If it’s a lot of money she’s hardly struggling anymore, is she..

You realise many single parents on UC actually work and will therefore qualify for a mortgage? They just aren't allowed to save a deposit.

If they are working and claiming UC they are not earning enough from employment to repay a mortgage.

Thanks Feelallright, I'd be a shit fraudster.

All the money from the sale of the house is going into her ex husband’s account, he’s then paying half into her brothers account so will be off the records for her.

I don’t know the exact figure (I didn’t want to pry) but it will be a lot, they outright own the house and it’s a house in a good area.

I thought exactly the same . . .

Yes it's fraud. I hope they don't do this.

No they aren't - and I worked at the citizens advice years ago - very few people can save money past the threshold anyway so it is a non-issue for most benefit claimants. Benefits aren't designed to let people save money.

You realise not all houses cost half a million?

There is no reason why a single parent on UC wouldn't earn enough to buy a house of say £120k, if they were able to save for a deposit.

There is no reason why a single parent on UC wouldn't earn enough to buy a house of say £120k, if they were able to save for a deposit.

Crazy. Also, as I said, unlikely.

Yes it's fraud. Concealment of assets.

Surely if she owns the house jointly, selling it is a joint transaction.

I can't believe people think this is ok. It is benefit fraud and should be reported.

You think that someone who has £20k in savings should be allowed benefits paid for by the public? So public money would be buying someone a house effectively. Benefits are a safety net, someone with a high amount of savings doesn't need them as they can live off their own money instead. I'd rather the money went to those who actually need it, not those who are able to save £16k plus whilst taking the money.

I'd suggest increasing income so benefits aren't needed and then saving for a house deposit.

I doubt any solicitor worth their salt will pay 100% of the proceeds of a house sale to one of the owners without express written instructions from the other joint owner that they agree to it so there's the paper trail right there.

I’d be far more upset about benefit fraud if £16 billion of the benefits budget didn’t go unclaimed every year.

And what happens if her ex decides to report her or hold it over her head? Or her brother decides to spend some for himself? Or one of the many people she’s told reports her?

Equally, if it’s a large sum of money why isn’t she earmarking it to get her off benefits and to improve her circumstances? It’s dishonest and short sighted - she should be using the money to get herself off benefits.

Don't be daft. Of course they can get a mortgage.

My relative was on UC and was working too. Unfortunately it is self employed work and she needed more years of accounts to get a mortgage, but it was perfectly doable in normal circumstances.

Yes it's fraud. The brother could also be charged for being complicit in this.

Fraud by false representation (Section 2);
Fraud by failure to disclose information when there is a legal duty to do so (Section 3); and

In each case:

the defendant's conduct must be dishonest;
his/her intention must be to make a gain; or cause a loss or the risk of a loss to another.
No gain or loss needs actually to have been made.
The maximum sentence is 10 years' imprisonment.

I'm sure people thought about just increasing their income...

Not everyone has poor standards like you. I find it laugable that people like you think they are whiter than white.

Perhaps her brother is loyal. Not that it is your business either way.

If it's from a house sale, there's a "trail" via the land registry which govt bodies like HMRC and benefits agency check against. She's very foolish!

Would DWP actually be able to prosecute her for benefit fraud if there’s never been any money in her account?

If she's reported - and if she's blabbing to all and sundry that's entirely likely - they could use their extensive powers to find out what happened to her half share of the money from the house, and since this is a deliberate fraud rather than some "misunderstanding" it would be unlikely to end well for her

Whether they'd actually prosecute rather than dock the money from any future benefits would depend on the amount, how many others are in the queue, how much of an example they wish to make of her and how easy it would be to prove, but since the answer to the last one is obvious she'd taking a hell of a risk

Just hope she doesn't expect to whine if she gets caught ...