Liz Truss to lift ban on new grammar schools

[noblegiraffe]

I cannot believe that we are here AGAIN after it went so poorly for Theresa May when she wanting to do this.

Liz Truss said in her leadership campaign that she wanted to lift the ban on new grammar schools. Since becoming PM, she has stuffed DfE positions with ardent supporters of new grammar schools (including the odious Jonathan Gullis as new schools minister).

The Telegraph is now reporting a planned amendment to the Schools Bill which would allow the creation of new grammar schools. Leading this is Sir Graham Brady, chair of the 1922 committee, who has been trying to bring back grammar schools for years.

Some notes on grammars: They are bad for social mobility. Despite many efforts to create a selection test that doesn't select against disadvantaged kids, this remains the case, and grammar school intakes are heavily skewed in favour of the better-off (obviously this is why some people like them).

The Tories closed more grammar schools than Labour, (Thatcher closed more than anyone else). They were not popular with parents who eventually realised that the vast majority of children don't get into them. Parents who might be in favour of grammars are not actually in favour of sending their child to secondary moderns, yet this is where most of them will go.

The German system (which is always referenced when it comes to grammar schools) was condemned by the UN for perpetuating social inequity.

Vocational education is a real issue in England and that's where any energy on schooling should be focused.

And obviously school funding and teacher recruitment and retention should be the main priorities in education for the new government.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/09/17/liz-truss-could-lift-ban-new-grammar-schools-months/

I'm really pleased about this..

I think we need to change our whole thinking around school as well.

We need more variety not less.

I have two DC and one is in a grammar. The other is also very bright but in a different way.

The comp ( different areas where we live)is shit, where can I send her? Ideally somewhat she would do drama and dance and more creative things..

Comps don't work.

Our education needs and over hall and Sen needs addressing properly.

Also the reason progress 8 introduce was because top set DC from primary where being failed.

Those that are in top set's are being failed in many schools and they are streamed anyway?

Non of this magical rubbing off.

All DC in Grammr areas should get Equal shot at the test and actually level it up again because at the moment,if parents are not interested for whatever reason, a child won't get in.

I don’t see the problem with it. Other education options are available.

I also don’t see a problem with it. I feel sorry for bright kids whose parents can’t afford private schools or can’t get into faith schools whose potential will be dashed at a comp.

The reality is not everyone is academic and destined for university nor should they be. But those who are should be given the opportunity to flourish regardless of their economic background. I can’t think of anything more egalitarian or promoting of social mobility than that.

Because the creation of grammar schools is not an isolated event in an area, it is to the detriment of the other schools. Grammar schools are statistically more likely to have advantaged children, (which we know boosts Ofsted outcomes). They are also statistically more likely to attract the experienced and qualified teachers in the area, leaving fewer for the other schools.

Sorry, for random posts but I would have far more respect for those campaigning against them if they were calling out for proper Sen training in the pgce.
Proper training for senco .

More across the board training for all Sen and the law around Sen so for instance teachers who don't know STOP telling parents a child needs to be a year behind to get an ehcp.

The culture around Sen , rigidity of training/ the cult around phonics all needs to change.
Parent's need to be brought on board more and ebreyone working as a team.

The statistics for people in prison with low literacy speaks for itself.

But...I never see the frequent posters on here supposedly in education ever calling for this?

Yet this would be the actual revolution needed in education?

It also filters through not only into society later but immediately in the classroom because instead of writing off Tom,messing around being naughty,

Recognise that Tom has adhdh and he can't control his behaviour, he needs some strategies in place to assist meaning the whole class can get in with being taught.

The child that is struggling to read may not be able to learn through phonics.
So simply try sight reading techniques. Catch them before self esteem issue's come in? Which then lead to many more issues...

Etc.

whose potential will be dashed at a comp.

You do know there are many, many comprehensives out there which are not dashing the potential of academic children?

I’m in a grammar school area parents spend a fortune on tutors to coach them through getting a pass. I wonder what could be done to try and create a fairer system.

Not having grammar schools.

They are streamed anyway so pp is right, rubbing off doesn't work. I went to a grammar and teach in a grammar, it is very good pastorally too. Lots of sen in grammars, autistic kids who mask and are very anxious and bright so always worked hard. Lots of late diagnosis. Some focus too much on academics but the top kids are often failed in comps. Also some amazing teachers for lower sets are not of the right skill set and academic level to teach the brightest but conversely the super bright teachers often can't handle behaviour and nurture required for lower sets. More variety of schools and more options are best.
Saying that my oldest may go to the massive comp with a grammar stream that let's them do btec at gcse alongside triple science, he's very practical and I'm not sure if he passes at all it will be a strong pass in the 11+. Kids are different and we need Vocational and academics available so parents can choose schools that suit their child.
If I had to go to a mixed sex comp I would have hated it. Super selective all girls met my needs for pace and subject variety like Latin and Greek in yr7 so we weren't bored silly. Others need to learn to read and write English properly, average adult reading age of 9 in the UK. How can bright kids learn with the majority being so behind them? Variety and meeting of needs.

Lack of SEND provision is a far bigger issue. Thousands without school places or in expensive independent special schools because of no places in maintained schools or no specialist maintained schools.

Yes more special schools too, and that meet academic needs not just holding or focused on basic skills if the kids are capable.

More across the board training for all Sen and the law around Sen so for instance teachers who don't know STOP telling parents a child needs to be a year behind to get an ehcp.

Round here it's more like 2-3 years....

Pinok in the past teachers had the in put and say,it's how df got into one with absolutely no parent's support at all ,they couldn't understand why he even wanted to try,and his the results from him.

We removed that and of course put the onus on parent's to do it. So....what happens to DC whose parents cant or won't engage?
They don't go.

The Sutton trust highlighted this and said primary school and grammar need to work together more to help DC like my dad.

The comp I went to was brilliant. The top tier (for want of a better word) ran like a grammar school anyway. As we also mixed with each other it helped kids understand that they could do better if they tried. And the teachers supported that.
We had a lot of highly influential and famous people come out of my comp. I wasn't one of them. But I was equipped with the skills needed for adult life. I don't have a problem with grammars. But do I think that a focus on behaviour and classroom management in state schools would be a better start, with parents actually backing the school on this. Rather than syphoning off the more able and better behaved children somewhere else and leaving the state schools as ghettos.

Hastings what do you mean.

Sen training is 2/3 year's or they tell parents That's how long a child has to be behind?

Yes if less than 2yrs behind- no need for an EHCP.

@elizaregina did you use a tutor for your DC?

Reasons against grammar:
What about the potential of students who can't afford tutors or who's parents are so busy working to pay for food that they don't have time or energy to look at 11+ exam dates. So grammar schools widen the gap between poor and rich. This might mean that individuals with privilege don't get the 'best' education but that all students get a good education got the reasons up thread re teachers and expectations.

What about non GCSE skills like understanding other people's lives and the experiences of society as a whole?

What about the impact on the self esteem of the many children who don't get in to grammar schools?

This is 100% correct and I should have mentioned it in my OP. School provision for children with SEN is appalling.

Funny how in areas like mine where there aren't grammar schools the very academically able still manage to get top grades and go on to uni etc.

Plenty of them. And plenty of areas that don't have grammar schools.

Absolutely agree about send. But I don't think it's yea hers that are the issue. They don't decide if they can be issued or not. That's the La. Parents can make their own applications and get to.d the same unlawful bullocks as they tell schools.

Good. More grammar schools can only be a good thing.

@Freedomfighters

Not all school want to engage.
The school I moved one DD from is just awarded outstanding.
It's a good school.
However parents of those with Sen couldn't gain any traction with slt. One became a governor to try and influence SLT.
Others complained and unfortunately totally ignored.

They tried.
Overall lock down they totally abandoned us. Again people complained and the head put out a message of thanks for support over their handling of lock down.

( No teaching for 3 months, work set but sparodic replies to student email, no recorded or live explantation of the work? )

I just don't buy that a certain type of parent can do anything.

Some comps will suit some DC very well but it's too hit and miss.

"Sen training is 2/3 year's or they tell parents That's how long a child has to be behind?"

Senco telling parents a child needs to be x years behind to get an ehcp.
The other one is needing x terms of evidence despite the child already clearly not coping ( running off, on part time time table etc).

@itsgettingweird

I don't blame teachers for not knowing what they are not taught at all.

But they do need the basics! And urgently otherwise it's the blind leading the blind with children falling down cracks.

Yeah. Liz Truss agrees to more Secondary Moderns. Why is that not the headline ?