Kids swimming and drowning..

[runforyourdog]

I keep seeing all these worrying posts about kids drowning and how you need to watch them every second..

I was just wondering, at what stage / age are kids able to be left to get on with it without risk of drowning?

Is it kids who can't swim who drown or when they get injured or get tired?

Is the wild swimming slogging around a course though? I can see how that's good, but it's not at all what I mean. Here's the kind of thing I'm talking about. The climate in Frankfurt isn't THAT different to here. These are man-made lakes for the most part - sand quarries that have been cleaned up and made into leisure facilities. It's cheap, and everyone from families to teens to older people (and nudists ofc!) spend the day there.

www.komoot.com/collection/141/the-best-swimming-lakes-around-frankfurt

I live in a place where there are loads of bodies of water, but I don't know of a single place like these. I just think it's a shame.

A child’s ability to risk assess and not over estimate their abilities, or get carried away with having fun, is actually the biggest criteria when giving them the freedom round water imo - not simply their swimming ability.

When DD1 and DD2 were young they had vastly different swimming abilities. DD1 was like a fish. DD2 lacked co-ordination and really struggled. Yet I’d have felt much, much more confident with DD2 around water than DD1. DD2 knew her abilities, knew where she was lacking and was very cautious of water. DD1 had a “I’m a really good swimmer” cockiness that scared me.

I think dd was 9 when I let her swim in the pool without me next to her, she was a strong swimmer (literally taught herself how to swim at 4 years old) but I won't let her swim in the lake by herself yet. The local children swim in little gangs at her age and younger (she's 11, I've seen children as young as 8 swimming with friends or older siblings), jumping in from the swimming jetty or doing dangerous things like riding bikes into the water. Makes me very uncomfortable and always keep an eye on them when we're swimming there too but no children have drowned here in all years I've lived here - most drowning deaths in my country are older men and involve alcohol, yet everyone wild swims (the swimming pool shuts in the summer because no one will pay to swim there when they can swim for free in the lake)

What’s stopping us, do you think?

You can't make the water warmer. It's cold water shock that often causes people to get into trouble.

Anything below 15°C is defined as cold water and can seriously affect your breathing and movement, so the risk is significant most of the year. Average UK and Ireland sea temperatures are just 12°C. Rivers such as the Thames are colder - even in the summer. From a BBC article today

Google tells me water temperatures around Frankfurt am Main can get up to 20 degrees in summer.

Yes, rivers and the sea are cold, of course. But a small, fairly shallow lake, like the one I paid literally 80 quid to take my children to yesterday: there are quite a few of those around, and they could be made safer to swim in, I feel, if there was an appetite to do it. It seems that private companies can do it, and charge an absolute mint. If you can’t pay, it’s quarries or the Thames for you, careful you don’t drown.

80 quid to swim in a lake?! That's insane profiteering. It's a lake, the upkeep costs very little (beach cleaning, weed pulling, sand raking etc we do it as a community at our local lake beach so costs nothing except our time)

I don't think there's such a thing as a child who is a strong swimmer personally

Not necessarily a child who could get themselves out of trouble with deceptively fast river water, but my Australian children and their friends are competent swimmers.

We live in a hot place, we have a pool and so they could dive in, well over their heads, feel the water over their bodies, get safely to the side from about 3 years, before they learned a proper stroke. From 7, at junior surf lifesaving (nippers) they were taken out beyond the break to do open water swimming.

They’ve been able to swim around a km from about 7-8 years. This isn’t at all unusual.

So - yes, I need to watch my younger two, of course. They are 10 and 8 now. But I don’t get in with them in the pool and I’m watching from a distance and watching for an accident.

My girls are almost 10 and this is the first summer I’ve left them to swim at the lido and occasionally keep an eye out for them from the side. They’re both strong club swimmers and there are life guards.

They have an inflatable assault course thing in it, so that’s what you’re paying for. There are other lakes where you can rent (extortionate) a paddle board or swim around a 500m/5km course. But there’s nothing recreational like you describe, where you go for a frolic in the water and an ice cream. But that’s really interesting that you do it as a community. Maybe something to think
about around here 🤔

I once pulled a drowning child out of a pool. The parents were sitting on loungers at the side and hadn't noticed, it happened very fast.

Ah right, that makes sense, paying to go on the inflatable thing.
Our local beach is an unofficial one (not recognised by the town council) so that's why we take care of it as a community, doing "talkoot" (a working bee I guess - i like this concept of doing work together, last week they were having a talkoo to get rid of some invasive plants on my road) but there's also official lake beaches taken care of by the council with swimming jetties and changing booths.

I’m not sure what people mean by being a good swimmer reading this thread. I can understand the comment about larger people grabbing you and pulling you down. Or being in open water.

But one comment about in a Center Parcs wave pool and short and shunted to the deep end? And that she’s a good swimmer? Im not a good swimmer and I can make it back swimming while the wave is on! If you can swim with the wave, you can’t swim.

Also my 11yo is not much smaller than me, maybe 5cm shorter. If she gets pull down by a non swimmer so can I surely?

I won’t swim in open water because I don’t think im good enough.

It’s not just larger people pulling you under - any panicking person grabbing you will be a heavy and unexpected weight. Unless they’re considerably smaller and lighter it’s an issue.

@JustLyra i agree. I can’t stay afloat if someone is pulling me down. I doubt many can. My point is it’s no different between and adult or a 10 year old in this situation.

My 11 year old swims better than me. I am not great at swimming but I can easily swim 100-200m in a pool. That doesn’t make you a good swimmer does it? It’s about stamina only.

I'd say being a good swimmer is about knowing how to cope in different situations in water, not just about being able to swim x distance. So knowing to float on your back when you get tired, coping with rough water/waves, being able to calm yourself down if you get panicky, coping with water going up your nose/splashing your face (this last bit stops me from being a good swimmer but I'm trying to train myself by putting my face in the water without a snorkel mask on as I usually do)

But one comment about in a Center Parcs wave pool and short and shunted to the deep end? And that she’s a good swimmer? Im not a good swimmer and I can make it back swimming while the wave is on! If you can’t swim with the wave, you can’t swim

i thought this. Anyone who isn’t safe in the deep end of a wave pool is not a good swimmer.

i did find though it’s not unusual for parents to say their kid “swims like a fish” only to find they’re completely unsafe out of their depth, don’t like jumping in etc. so many times I took 8+ kids swimming and ended up getting in because they were very week swimmers.

to me, a weak swimmer is someone who can manage 50m, ie can get themselves back from the deep end. Anyone who can’t is a non swimmer.

Last time we went swimming my 9 year old wanted to go in the deep end but I couldn't join him as DD 6 can't swim very well so I had to stay with her. I was happy to let him and the pool says ok from 8+ but would probably have watched more closely if there wasn't a lifeguard.

We have a 12, 10 and 5 yr old. We swim at least 3 times a week from around May to October as my parents have a pool and we go to the beach a lot.

12 is a strong swimmer and has been since about 6. We still won't allow her in our family pool without an adult outside, though we don't watch her all the time. I would probably let her go to a public pool with friends/no adult, but would want an adult there if she went sea swimming/paddle boarding/sailing.

10 yr old is also strong, but less confident with the different strokes. We will always have an adult sitting by the pool when he swims, but not necessarily watching like a hawk.

5 yr old is strong in a swim vest, and allowed in the pool without an adult in it with him but will always have someone watching closely. We wouldn't allow him in the sea without an adult either in or on the shoreline.

My kids have all done serious club swimming lessons (straight in the pool out of depth, face in etc) from age 5. The 2 eldest swim off by themselves, and the eldest (DS 12) is definitely able to swim in waves etc (pool or sea) with no trouble. DS 9 can happily swim in a pool without close supervision, but in the waves or in the sea he has to stay in vision of a parent. DD 6 is just allowed to swim in the pool without a swimming vest, but must stay near a parent or eldest brother, and has to stay in her depth for the waves.

I'm always surprised when people say their 5-6 year olds are great swimmers. In my opinion, under age 7/8 they might know the strokes, but simply don't have the strength to swim constantly out of their depth...

Not read the full thread, but when they can properly swim in the deep end.

And by left alone, I mean to not be in the pool with them! Would still be nearby on the side.

A five year old who needs to wear a swim vest needs you in the pool next to them. At roughly 6/7 I would sit by the side of the pool rather than get in but I would be watching closely (no phone, no book).

You can have a 5 year old decently strong swimmer though - mine could do 25m at that age (not the UK, grew up swimming).

Mine are now 11/12 and swim better than me. I still watch them (but not that closely) because things can change in a minute. I wouldn't let one of them be swimming on their own without watching very closely.

And they do wild swim, but only in rivers I know very well.

Agreed in a public pool with lots of other people around potentially obstructing my view etc. In a private one I'm happy at the side.

That might be the case for lots of children in the U.K., but not unusual elsewhere where children do more swimming from an early age.

It’s not at all unusual for children under 7 to be happy spending an afternoon in a pool out of their depth here. Most of my siblings/nieces and nephews & I were able to swim 25m by we were 5. In one case at 2. Not all by any means there are children that don’t start to learn at clubs until 4/5 or later but lots of those already have water experience or may already be able to swim short distances unaided.

In the U.K. I’d say it’s probably more unusual for children to have been in the water several times a week or daily since they were babies. It’s not something people tend to do.

I'm not in the UK but I see your point. I guess in Ox for example kids probably learn proper swimming earlier. I'm in an EU country where they take swimming pretty seriously - no armbands or anything. Kids learn to swim out of their depth straight away. I just found that none of mine (particularly my youngest, who is young for her school year) had much strength to their strokes until a bit later. DD 6 can do 25m out of her depth but she's in no way strong enough to be left unsupervised.