When do the early wake ups stop?!

[Tigersteakpie]

My eldest DS (7) has always been an early riser. 5:30 was his regular wake up time until he was 3. Since then, despite trying everything (we think!) he is still up between 5:45 and 6:15 every sodding morning. He is now 7.

He's tired in the day, last night he was practically falling asleep at dinner. Normal bedtime of 8:00, was asleep by 8:10. Woke up at 6:00 on the button.

It just feels that no matter how tired he is, as soon as his eyes ping awake, that's it. He can't/won't go back to sleep.

His younger brother is more regulated. He has a regular 7:30 bedtime and will wake between 6:30-8am. But if he's tired he'll sleep in.

No matter how late my eldest's bedtime is, or how exhausted he is, he'll still ping awake ridiculously early.

A few months ago we had an exhausting day out in London. Out for hours, we walked miles. Came home, watched a movie and he didn't go to bed till 9:30 that night. 5:45 the next morning and he was awake.

We have a gro clock, he knows he should stay in his bed until 6:45 but he will try and sneak downstairs to watch TV or just get up for multiple toilet trips to pass the time. We used to say he could look at books but that would wake his brother up as they share a room and he'd be up and down picking different books every minute. We said over lockdown that he could play on his iPad when he woke but he started waking earlier and earlier so we stopped that too.

His teachers say he's tired at school and by Thurs/Fri he's a wreck. We've done earlier bedtimes but that doesn't work. If we put him to bed at 7:00 he just tosses and turns till 8:30 and gets frustrated so we have a firm bedtime routine with 30mins of quiet reading in bed from 7:30 and lights out at 8:00.

Is he just destined to be like this forever?

As an aside, he has some minor SEN and we suspect he possibly has very mild ASD/ADH. But his teachers have never raised any concerns.

Try putting him to bed slightly earlier. Ours gets up earlier the more tired he is. Makes no sense. But he still is early but half six now rather than 5, and it feels like a long lie. But he is 9...

Sorry OP, but IME it could be for a good couple of years yet! Mine started sleeping later than 6 when he was 10yo. Personally I'd just let him come downstairs quietly by himself now he's old enough to.

I'd let him get up himself and play in his room for a couple of hours. He's old enough.

One of mine literally never slept later than 6:30 until he was a teenager. Doesn’t matter what time he went to bed. It’s just his body clock, annoyingly.

We can't let him play in his room as he shares with his brother who wants to stay asleep!

We let him go downstairs but anything too exciting and the wake ups creep earlier and earlier so he can watch more pokemon/YouTube.

For those who had similar were your kids also tired in the day. He's not exhausted (he'd fall asleep earlier if he was). But he does seem lethargic a lot. But earlier bedtimes do not work. He honestly just tosses and turns in bed for hours. We have tried.

I would let him go downstairs and be quietly reading or watching tv.

OP, I had one exactly the same. As soon as his eyes were open, it was like he'd been shot in the arse. He was up and ready for the day. It was exhausting. I'd also just let him creep downstairs and lie on the sofa quietly watching the tv so he doesn't disturb anyone else. At least he's still resting then, even if he's not sleeping.
I can't remember when mine stopped. Everyone said it would happen when he started school...it didn't. But if it's any consolation, he's now a strapping 18-year old who can lie in until lunchtime after a night clubbing.

OP I could be writing this! My dd8 is exactly like this and always has been.im resigned to it now, she plays in her room on weekdays and comes down to go on ipad/telly at weekends. Apparently I was the same at that age and I'm still naturally an early riser- but not that early!

Like @TeeBee mine can now lie in bed but she still wakes early. Her boyfriend despairs but it’s his problem now 😂😂

Make quiet time during the day so he can rest. So when he gets in from school have some time with a DVD and blankets snuggled just chilling or something.

You can’t make him sleep more so just help him learn ways to chill during the day.

Have you ever persisted in school holidays to keep him up til 10pm for days 4-5 days in a row to try to reset his internal clock. We travelled intercontinental with ours and my elder with asd had to be forced to reset by not letting her sleep at her normal bedtime

I hate to say it but it may never change!

I'm 32 and I've always struggled to get back to sleep once I'm awake, even if I wake at 4am

This morning for example, DH woke me getting out of bed at half six and I've been awake ever since even though I'd love nothing more than to go back to sleep

Some people just wake early and can't do "lie ins".

This is my 7 year old. I let him get up and watch tv and get himself a bit of breakfast till everyone else gets up

@TeeBee this is the BEST description ever!! It's exactly like he's been shot. He just won't then chill. When his brother wakes up, his eyes open slowly and then he'll enjoy the last snuggly bit in his duvet before getting up.

It's nice to know I'm not alone. He does lots of rest in the day, that does seem to help.

If he has mild SEN is he under a community pediatrician at all? You may be able to trial melatonin if it's affecting his schooling.

@zippityzip

If he has mild SEN is he under a community pediatrician at all? You may be able to trial melatonin if it's affecting his schooling.

Melatonin only helps with falling asleep not staying asleep.

Ds is on melatonin but 6am is still considered a lie in! It’s just without it he will only fall asleep at gone midnight but still wake at 6, with it he is asleep by 9.30

I use melatonin and it definitely helps me stay asleep. I never have problems going to sleep, I just wake up a lot. Melatonin helps me doze back off quickly.

OP its habit. You need to go in a gently disturb him about 20 mins before he is due to wake up to put him back in to another sleep cycle. Do this for about 4 days and he will get past that early wake up.

Some never grow out of it. My 17yo DS has always been an early riser and still is now. I would definitely try an earlier bedtime

I don't suppose there's anything obvious in the environment is there? Ds used to be in the room with the boiler cupboard and it definitely woke or roused him when the heating came on. It was very environmentally friendly as I just stopped heating the house.

I would try the SN board as sleep is such an issue there will be a lot of old hands. Ds is NT but even so his absolute inability to sleep in nearly broke me because I'm such a dormouse. It changed eventually but I'm pretty sure he was a teenager.

Dd1 is the same always been an early riser. We said at the weekend and school holidays she has to read quietly until 7.30 then could go and watch TV downstairs. It didn't work immediately and there were times when we got up and went downstairs as there was too much noise but I didn't let her put the TV on for a while. Eventually she worked it out and reads until 7.30 and goes downstairs quietly - she shares and did wake dd2 occasionally but it didn't last long. We put a time for going downstairs otherwise she would also be up increasingly early just to watch TV.

We have had this set up for a few years, dd1 is almost 11. In the week we are up at 6.45 on the odd occasion we do have to wake her but she reads quietly until then and gets up and gets breakfast. With the occasional toilet trip between 6.15/6.30.

We have a very similar child (with ASD and ADHD), but she doesn't have a sibling. She's been on melatonin since age 7.5 and it's massively helped with falling asleep. Before it could take hours (even when tired) because she 'couldn't shut her brain off'. She's nearly 9 now. She goes downstairs when she wakes and watches TV or plays games. We take headphones on holiday.

I know some people on here are anti melatonin but for us it's been a wonder drug.

Also, with due respect to the horrendous cost of housing, it's not your son's fault his shares a bedroom and that his sibling is (presumably) a light sleeper. You may need to set the house up for the DC you have rather than trying to change one of them.

I have got a colleague in her 50s who 'bings' awake, requires only a few hours sleep and can't get back to sleep. We're all different.

I do think most children's sleep patterns regulate a bit in teenage years.

Just starting to see hints of later wakeups occasionally now he's 12. We get the very odd day when he's still asleep at 7.
We dont have the issue with kids sharing rooms, but things that have helped:
Sunrise alarm clock style thing. Light comes on at 6.30. Absolutely no reading/lights on before then. If they dont need to wake up enough to read the clock, he's found it easier to go back to sleep. Volume to 0 at the weekends. Up and downstairs from 7. Week days and weekends same rules.
Tablets are banned til after breakfast. There is no way early wakes are rewarded with screentime (and yes, the kids and I have had breakfast, no alarmclocks, on a Saturday).
Have a complete slob day at the weekend once or twice a month. Literally TV or low stakes board games, pottering around type day.

International travel used to be ok, because he just didn't sleep on planes. He's done 36 hours on just the 2 hours sleep at bedtime before we went to the airport (we lived somewhere that the flight home was 2am), so he just got sent to bed at the correct time for his new location. I, in the meantime, was a wreck by the end of those flights!

You might have more sucess with dinner 15 mins earlier, and then bed 15 mins earlier rather than a big jump to an earlier bedtime when tired. It was time between meals that used to reset DSs body clock. Have a late meal, go to sleep late is pretty typical for him (and actually DH too, who wont go to bed within a couple of hours of eating - although much easier to manage as an adult!)

I've thought about melatonin but he's not got an official diagnosis and I don't think we need one so I'd have to buy it privately which I am too nervous to do.

I'm going to try the suggestion of rousing him at 5:00am ish, it's worth a try!!

We have had success with going abroad and consistently later bedtimes changing the wake up time eventually but it didn't last and I think overall his time asleep remained the same. I think he's just always destined to need only a smaller amount of sleep than most.

Perhaps he'll be the next prime minister. I remember Maggie Thatcher saying she only had a few hours a night 🤣

And yes, agree with the PP about screen time. I would love to use it in the morning, but for him it's such a reward it just makes him get up earlier and earlier. We have a very definite rule of no screen time until 7:00 and that will stay for the time being.

His brother isn't a light sleeper, but DS will crash around (they have a bunk) and climb up and down the ladder to get books/toys/have a wee and no matter how good a sleeper you are, it's impossible to sleep through.