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Original poster

I hate to ask and I know it’s bad but…..

179 replies

Cornishwench · 15/09/2021 18:30

Has anyone put a grandparents/relatives address down on a secondary school application form due to being out of catchment and successfully got a placement?
Child is in feeder primary
All family live in area
We live hear but may have to move next year
I know morally it’s wrong but if it’s in the best interest of the child?
Thankyou

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 17/09/2021 00:36

At least the private system is transparent about buying advantage. The people who criticise private schools yet support this are hypocrites.

The people who criticise this yet support the concept and the existence of private schools are hypocrites.

Goldbar · 17/09/2021 01:28

It makes me uneasy when people talk about "moral" entitlements to school places. One child is no more morally entitled to a place in a good school than another child, no matter where their parents live or whether they go to church. There is a lot to be said for a lottery system for oversubscribed schools.

That said, parents will always pursue their own children's advantage. So society needs rules to regulate this. These rules set the limits of what is acceptable. It is arguably no more immoral to lie about your address to secure a school place than to pretend to be religious or to pay for a private school place and perpetuate inequality. All of these have harmful consequences for other children generally. But society dictates that it is acceptable to 'buy' privilege for your children through school fees, religious attendance and house prices and that's just the way it is. There will always be losers in this system. And in order to make the system work, they need to come down hard on the losers who try to circumvent their losing position by giving false information. Hence why the school place is withdrawn from the child if the deception is discovered - to maintain the system. The child is blameless and the sins of the parents are visited on the child. But that's fine because that child wasn't 'morally' entitled to a place at a good school while another child was, apparently Hmm. The truth is that many of us would be happy to throw other people's children under the (metaphorical) bus if we could secure an advantage for our own children by doing so. Those with more resources available to them can do it through more legitimate measures such as catchment areas and school fees.

urbanbuddha · 17/09/2021 02:29

I've heard - but can't remember where - that it's the address you're living at on the day school applications close that counts.
Perhaps post this on education board, many reliable sources there.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

General education
Pinkfluff76 · 17/09/2021 07:34

Won’t they get in because they’re in the feeder primary?

AFuturisticalSound · 17/09/2021 07:57

@Pinkfluff76

Won’t they get in because they’re in the feeder primary?
That isn't a criteria in my County, I thought it was the same all over England There's no link between primaries and secondaries in that way, you start again without application and loads of people move house during primary years
Marcee · 17/09/2021 07:58

When I applied for the primary school. There were no checks at all.
Not sure about our local secondary yet

RunningStrong · 17/09/2021 08:18

Why are they facing being rehoused?

There's something uneasy about (presumably) disadvantaged families being forced to move away from the good school. I'd get the local councillor and/or MP and maybe the press involved.

ChristinaMarlowe · 17/09/2021 08:45

Even if you got aqay with it to the point of successfully winning a place, you will lose both the place and your dignity if and when you are caught out. It's very easily checked and by that point you are late to get into a nearer school. Either be honest and say this is DM address, we WILL have moved and provided our address by term time and hope for the best; move first or be honest and take your chances. Sorry OP, really not great and also every darn parent that does that by me makes me crazy with the traffic congestion on my doorstep. Moved to live right on top pf good primary and continually blocked in by people that live miles away and arrive early to sit in my drive with the engine running every morning. Good luck with it though, totally understand you wanting the best for your child but please don't attempt to con your way into it.

TeenMinusTests · 17/09/2021 09:11

[quote MyPatronusIsACat]@THisbackwithavengeance

It's no worse than people going to church every Sunday whilst their kids are at primary never to be seen again once their kids get into the church school of choice.

THIS ^ boils my piss too. People not giving a shit about religion, or the Church, or anyone who goes, but they still want their child to go to a C of E school. Hypocrisy at its finest.

These are the same twots who USE the Church for their wedding, when they never EVER go to Church. They want a Chruch wedding 'for the pretty scenery!' Hmm[/quote]
It is not the same.

One is within the rules (church attendance) and one is fraud(lying about your address).

The faith school rules are not about 'what is in men's hearts' to quote Elizabeth I, it is about outward conformance to clear criteria. You can complain all you like about faith schools (and I might well agree with you), but a parent getting their child baptised or attending church weekly for a year as per admission criteria are acting within the rules.

MajorNeville · 17/09/2021 09:29

My ds lost his place at our local high achieving school because one of his mates mothers lied and said she'd split with her husband and was back home with her parents, she'd park her car away from the house and walk home at night to keep up the rouse, I know this as 5 different people reported her activity to me. In the end I chose not to report her and I went through the proper channels to appeal. I lost 3 months of sleep because of her utter selfishness. I did get ds into the school, as I put forward an excellent case for him going there. I still feel bitter about this and they're at university now, lol

Goldbar · 17/09/2021 11:18

@MajorNeville. Why does it make you feel bitter? Your son got a place in the end. Yes, she was breaking the rules, but why should your son be entitled to a place at a high-performing school and not hers?

Lottery is the way to go.

TeenMinusTests · 17/09/2021 12:03

[quote Goldbar]@MajorNeville. Why does it make you feel bitter? Your son got a place in the end. Yes, she was breaking the rules, but why should your son be entitled to a place at a high-performing school and not hers?

Lottery is the way to go.[/quote]
You may feel lottery is better, but parents have to abide by the existing rules. I'd be bitter too if someone else cheating the system meant my child missed out.

Dancingonmoonlight · 17/09/2021 12:11

TeenMinusTests

This means poorer people are disadvantaged. How is that fair?

TeenMinusTests · 17/09/2021 12:17

Dancing If the existing rules are not fair enough then get them changed. Change the catchment areas, introduce lottery, or priority by income or whatever. But lying about your address to cheat isn't on.

Dancingonmoonlight · 17/09/2021 12:50

TeenMinusTests Easier said than done.

‘Expensive’ areas get the best performing schools.
I don’t care if it’s fair or unfair. We all want what’s best for our children.

Goldbar · 17/09/2021 14:25

Well, it's unlikely an individual parent is going to be able to change national admissions policy. So if you're a loser under the present rule, you can either accept this and send your child to a poor school or try to cheat the system. Realistically, those are your choices.

And yes, legally it is wrong to lie. I'd definitely dob them in. After all, all's fair in love and the war for school places. So I'd shop them without compunction and take the place for my kid. But I wouldn't sit around and bleat about how nasty and 'immoral' they were. It's natural to want the best for your kids and the system is stacked against some people. So I can understand the temptation.

Buggersticks · 17/09/2021 15:34

If my child lost his rightful place at our local school because someone miles away got it, meaning we then had to go miles to another school, I'd be fucking livid. And if I found out who it was you can bet I'd report them!! You'd effectively be stealing from another child.

Goldbar · 17/09/2021 15:39

@Buggersticks. If my child lost his rightful place at a good school because property prices meant we couldn't afford to live in catchment, meaning they had to go to a sink school, I'd be fucking livid...I might even lie to get them into the good school.

One child can't 'steal' a school place from another child. All children are entitled to a place at a good school, it's just that there aren't enough to go around. So arbitrary rules are used to allocate them.

Plumtree391 · 17/09/2021 17:02

I agree with Goldbar; you have to do what you can for your children.

Dancingonmoonlight · 17/09/2021 19:03

I agree with Goldbar; you have to do what you can for your children

I agree too.

Springleaves · 17/09/2021 22:21

@mathanxiety

At least the private system is transparent about buying advantage. The people who criticise private schools yet support this are hypocrites.

The people who criticise this yet support the concept and the existence of private schools are hypocrites.

That’s not what I was saying. Straw man
Springleaves · 17/09/2021 22:21

I mean you can point out the sheer hypocrisy without being accused of supporting private schools…

Springleaves · 17/09/2021 22:23

Actually I still think that the private system is more transparent though than the hypocrites who claim to be avid socialists yet use their sharp elbows to disadvantage poorer kids.

Coffeeonmytoffee · 17/09/2021 22:27

No it's wrong. You also need to show you pay council tax there as well as another utility. Also you need to show you're entitled to get child benefit there even if you don't get child benefit.
I think it's wrong. It's cheating and another child won't get into their legitimate local.school.

WimpoleHat · 18/09/2021 08:15

you have to do what you can for your children.

I agree too. But I wouldn’t do this - because it’s foolhardy and you’re likely to get caught. And the consequences will be felt by your child, who will almost certainly end up with a school place in a worse/much less conveniently located school. And that’s without considering the large number of people bitching behind your/your child’s back. Kids pick up on this sort of thing. It’s a whole different ball game from lying about entitlement to a tax credit or benefit or something, where you just have to pay it back if you’re found out. Your child actually has to go to this school and mix with these people. And live with the threat of removal and being sent somewhere else. I don’t think it is best for the child at all….