Anyone work for PwC who can provide some insight?

[SootyandSweepAsleep]

I know PwC as we are a client of theirs.

A very interesting job role there has come up, I am pretty sure I would meet their experience criteria, but not sure whether to be put off from the outset by the Big 4 'sell your soul' perception. I work bloody hard but also need some flexibility and not to end up working crazy hours each week.

This would be for a senior manager position.

I have late primary/early secondary age kids and a husband who works shifts.

Am I even ridiculous for thinking of applying?

I'm a director at another big 4 firm. Depends on your area, role, location, and how keen you are to get promoted. There are definitely spaces for senior managers who aren't that bothered about promotion and put in a solid 8 hours a day but no more. Will depend on the office but I'd say that there is more space to hide in London.

My specialism is deals, and there are times when I'm working crazy hours and also times when I do a 7.5 hour day and no more. Suits me.

The fact that you also claim that the long hours don't really hit senior managers and above also doesn't match my experience.

My DH works for a big 4 (not PWC) and it is extremely family friendly and flexible. I have a friend at PWC (consulting) who is a mum to two young kids and is very happy there.

Everyone I know - client facing or not - works long hours.

I'm ex-PWC and have since worked for various competitors and find this to be very true. I find management consultancy is much worse for hours than audit. In my last role, I would frequently have calls with the account manager at 11pm at night and none of us thought it late even. Everyone was just focussed on getting the work done and keeping the client happy.

I work for a competitor in the Big 4 and would say it depends which team you’re in and the boundaries you set up with your team as when you will/ won’t be available. As a new person you’ll have more bargaining power to do this (as I did). I was very upfront about having children, family and hobbies where I don’t want to work long hours.

I should also add that in my world, it's the newbies who really end up doing the long hours / travel as they need to prove themselves more. Once you have a track record of success, you can negotiate a bit more flexibility at times. But in the early days (especially at Senior Manager and above level), you really need to show you're good....and that inevitably means long hours.

Makes me so glad I am an FD in industry. I go home when the factory closes, and forget about work until the next day..

Which was the firm where the head honcho had to resign after being totally dismissive about the pandemic? Deloitte?

KPMG

Senior Manager in a Big 4 here - client facing but not audit. I work 4 days a week and work pretty flexibly. I end up doing bits in the evenings and weekends but that's normally because I tend to stop most days at 4.30 to go and get DS from nursery. DH works for another Big 4 in an audit-related field and his hours are up and down although generally a bit worse than mine. Both of us have been in our Big 4s for over a decade and I'd say the culture and flexibility has improved massively over the last few years.

My DH is a director at PwC in a client facing role and the hours are quite frankly ridiculous- 10pm finishes most nights (although is wfh at the moment so can at least break off for dinner).

I worked in tax and then advisory roles for a very long time at PwC. My former colleagues tell me it's changed but the people I recruit (to a competitor firm) who have been there more recently say its still a very long hours culture.

If you are going in as a senior manager and not expecting promotion then you could try to be very firm about the hours you work but IME not doing the work is not an option so there's going to be an element of late nights. You can probably avoid weekend work mostly except in extreme circumstances.

Would you be full time? They don't respect part time hours when it comes to organising events so you just have to be hard nosed about non-attendance at those.

I would have thought lock down will have made it worse that there will be an expectation that you show up on the odd teams meeting or call on your NWDs or when you are at home looking after dc. Being at home for the dc won't be a problem but you will have to be concentrating on work not your dc.

I used to leave to get dc from nursery, put them to bed then start work again. The nail in the coffin for me was getting bad feedback from another senior colleague (also a mum, with lots of family help unlike me), that I should not have left a meeting at 5pm. Yet she knew I had no choice as dh worked away. It's not like I was always doing pick up it was only 2 days a week. So the problem isn't the PwC firm line, which is very family friendly, it's the individuals you work with who can be less family friendly in their expectations.

They tend to put you through a wringer pushing you to get you to take on more (similar has happened in my current firm). It is actually really good because you get better and better at your job. But it can be exhausting and a hard experience.

I’ve worked quite a lot with consultants so a perspective from the other side was that those from the big 4 seemed to have some boundaries. Those from mckinsey on the other hand...

Thanks all so much - extremely interesting seeing lots of different points of view and experiences. This is exactly why I'm very cautious!!

I'll put in an application and see what happens. Seeing a job advert through to any selection process is normally long winded enough, and it's a distinct possibility that I won't even be successful...so lots of time to ask questions, do lots of digging and think about things.

successful...so lots of time to ask questions, do lots of digging and think about things.

That's the key really. I think the overarching message is that culture can vary massively between teams, which is sort of my experience.
I sort of made a point of avoiding teams overseen by senior management that I knew had a "long hours" culture at PwC and Deloitte, but the opportunity for flexibility and a reasonable workload is there.

I’d also add caution to the bullshit that gets spun at interviews about flexibility and the reality of managing a client. There’s always some flexibility to get yourself involved in good projects with good Partners leading but if you are at a loose end with nothing to do you have less control over the partners you work with and the pressure will be applied. You can only say no so many times before it becomes known - no one will put you into their team, that will affect your ability to succeed.

I’m ex Big 4. I’ve been audited by three of them (not PWC) over the past four years.

Their hours are still barking mad and their senior managers get the worst of it. I am quite worried about the senior manager leading our 2020 audit. He’s smart and consequently gets all the difficult stuff to deal with. He and I regularly exchange emails at 10 pm and on Sundays.

I know that the OP’s potential new role is not in audit but my experience of working with Big 4 tax, insolvency and consulting teams has been the same. Not that I can rest on my laurels. I’m an FD in tech and my hours are stupid too.