DH works 6 or 7 day week and now employers are questioning him taking days owed. Does he have a right to take it?

[peoplepleaser1]

DH is a company director (non executive). He works very hard. His regular hours are 9 hours a day, 5 days a week (he works Saturdays and has a day off in the week).

He often works late; brings work home; deals with issues or goes in on his day off,; responds to alarm calls at any hour of the night meaning he has to attend work for several hours; cancels his day off altogether; works six or seven days a week in the festive period; covers late nights at Christmas so maybe a 20 hour day, plus four times a year goes abroad for a weekend on a trip.

He has a pretty good salary and a great bonus (but this is related to business performance). He gets 4 weeks holiday a year,.

He does not count any extra hours, work done at home or days where he flies abroad. However, when he works a full day on a day off and can't take an alternative day off he counts this as a day owed.

He probably accrues 15 days owed a year and over the past 6 years has taken 3-4 of them. He doesn't carry them forward.

His boss is now saying that as a director he expects DH to just swallow these extra days.

He's gutted. Given the choice he would take a pay cut for extra time off, but this isn't an option.

We aren't clear if he has a right to these days.

Can anyone offer any thoughts please.

What's in his contract re hours, call out payments and overtime payments?

My DH has a contract that states he does the hours necessary to do the job - no overtime entitlement and no TOIL. What does your DH's contract/terms and conditions say?

I'd re-post this in the Employment section, you'll get more specific help there than in Chat.

What kind of firm is it?

I presume he is a director without board responsibilities (a non exec director is a different thing).

Most director contracts say things like, do what's needed. However, of he can't generally do the job in the time allocated he either needs help (it's either capability or capacity) or he needs to renegotiate the role. He would need to be more disciplined about limiting his hours and demonstrating what doesn't get done as a result .

There's usually some leeway (usually in the companies favour) but he needs to have a grown up conversation with his boss.

Surprised at the “boss”s response, as at the level of seniority described I would expect the contract to say he will do whatever is needed to get the job done, but there is usually a fair bit of give and take, often to the extent no one cares about holiday as long as the job gets done.

However I’m not sure what you mean my a non exec director. Non execs do not work in the business, which can is clearly what you are describing, they do x number of days a year ( from as few as 24, q day meeting + 1 day prep) for board meetings and if they take on extra work I would expect them to get paid extra as a consultant.

I presume you mean his job title includes the word director (e.g. sales director) but he is actually an employee rather than a statutory director (google companies house and check whether he is shown as a director). If that is the case as PP says it is a case of needing help &/or renegotiating, but bear in mind that can backfire.

In any event that rate of work can’t be kept up indefinitely, get is sorted or expect a crash.

I'm confused about the role too. It doesn't sound anything like a typical non-exec director role.

As others have said it's fairly typical in senior roles not to get TOIL. You just do what you have to to get the work done.

Thank you so much for the replies. As people have suggested I think DH's contract is probably along the lines of doing whatever is required.

I guess I hoped that despite this he had a right to his two days off per week, or to take a day off after a seven day week or if this wasn't possible to take it later.

He's incredibly hard working and contentious, and has done well at work. He has more responsibilities than it's possible to deal with and is constantly chasing his tail and stressed. I feel they have take. Advantage of him and piled more on him than it's possible for him to do.

I know he should speak up, but he feels he is responsible for it all and just tries so hard to get it all done.

When he's called in on his day off and a Sunday he often tries to get an alternative day off but he's needed for specific things on all the other days so he can't take a different day off.

I worry for his mental health especially when he can't have the down time he needs .

firstly 4 weeks holiday is less than legal minimum which is 18 days or 5.6 weeks
also working time directives still aplly if he is an employee even if he is not paid overtime he is entitled to breaks both in terms of holidays and consecutive hours if you work 1am -4pm on a n emergency you are not then supposed to work 9 hpours the next days followed by another 2-3 hours in the middle of the night
I asume from OP that emergency calls in the middle of the night are not happenning just once or twice a year
if he works a Wednesday when it should be his day off he should try and say i'm not in on Thursday instead sometimes people who are dedicated are taken advantage of and he may need to learn the MN mantra
" no is a complete sentence" obviously at his level he can't be a 9-5 clock watcher but if you do several late nights for a big push timeline it should be sort of made up later by a few early finishes at least
he needs to check his contract but like any other contract it can't go beyond the law ( just like a tenants right to quiet enjoyment can't be overwritten by landlord insisting on right of access) so neither can his contract require an opt out of working time directives as the law states he can opt back into working time directives at any time opting out can not be a condittion of employment

Sorry, I used the term non exec director wrongly. He is listed at companies house but is not on the main board, he's called an associate director.

He doesn't want to be a director! He feels it's just a way of making him responsible for decisions that he's not a part of (but that's a whole other thread).

I use SMOL capsules (you can get free trials from their website) which don't have softener in but leave clothes smelling lovely when dry.

My DH has a similar sounding job, but the company lets the directors manage their own leave and take enough for their wellbeing and family needs, trusting them that they will do the job. This is the first company that's been like this, they usually bleed the directors dry. If there's a clause in contract saying 'do what needs doing, no toil ' and that is exploited then there's little to do but find a job with better respect for work life balance, but at that level not an easy task.

Most employees at his level will have a clause saying that he has to work whatever hours are necessary to do the job. That's just the way it is with senior roles. He has no right to take the time "back" and he isn't "owed" any days. I'm an employment lawyer.

I wish this wasn't the case. DH would be "owed" about 5 years

That's nice @briefdisaster

He needs to renegotiate his role. As he's listed at CH, he has legal responsibilities, but the main board appear to being denying him the privileges of his rank. He should be firm: either he devolves to an employee and insists on employee rights, or he gets a full vote on the board. Life's too short to chase a carrot perpetually out of reach.

He will be both an employee and a statutory director. He still has employment rights but they're completely separate to his directorship.

any worker must have 24 hours continuous rest a week ( or 48 hours per fortnight this is to cover someone who maybe on shift works 7-8 days in a row then has days off) so the absolute minimum is 2 days per fortnight of a whole 24 hours each
also there should be 11 hours between finishing work one day and starting the next
opting out of working time regulations means the 48 hours week; you can't opt out of either rest breaks (this applies to both tea breaks short breaks and the longer breaks between shifts and days rest) or holidays

It won't be an opt out situation though, it will be under the autonomous decision maker provisions (where the rules on breaks don't apply).

OP he needs to speak to the other directors and explain that it can't continue.

Has he tried SMOL capsules @peoplepleaser1 ? 😋

I'm an Associate Director with a standard leave package in a private firm.

My contract states 'reasonable additional hours'. Reasonable is of course undefined. That said, my directors treat as a responsible adult and a valued member of the team.

If I work additional hours that I can balance them up with time out of the office as I see fit.

They don't take the piss and neither do I. I don't think my leave has every been questioned.

Your husbands firm sound like bellends

Sounds like they are biting off their nose to spite their faces. They have a great employee now but if he doesn't get enough rest he either burn out, get fucked off and go elsewhere or become seriously ill. He should stick to his guns on the TOIL. It's such a great thing to have.

If they don't agree he should work to rule, doing contracted hours only, while looking for another job.

I think all employees and employers should realise that unemployment is about 2-3% at the moment, there are other jobs and not that many people to fill them. So it's an employee's market, and a great time to tell unreasonable employers to get to fuck stand firm and tell employers how it's going to be.

Horrible - I understand that there’s an expectation to work extra due to his seniority - but they are taking the piss! He’s not a slave - he needs a break! That’s no life no matter how much money he gets ! My dh has a fairly high tho senior job too and he works late regularly - but wouldn’t ever have work emails at home or work calls and wouldn’t dare do work on a weekend! He takes all his annual leave and would leave early occasionally if he’s worked late other days!

My old job was like this always contactable (they even contacted me while I was on honeymoon about something 🤦‍♀️) I just found a new job in a nicer company who actually care about their employees

If your husband is as experienced and high up at current job then surely he is very hireable - I’d be moving on if I was him

if a genuine autonomous decision maker( ADM) he can't be made to work 24/7
you can't have it both ways if he is ADM then he can elect TOIL if he can't take TOIL he can't be ADM
according to working time directive ADM do not have their working hours either measured or counted or decided by employer ( ie there can be no core working hours or a specified number of hours they have to be at work)

quote
"Unmeasured working time

Workers whose working time is not measured or decided by their employer, such as managing executives or others with autonomous decision-making powers, are exempted from the limit on the maximum working week.

This exemption is quite narrow and does not cover all workers with managerial responsibilities, such as ordinary line managers or supervisors, or indeed anyone contracted to work certain core hours or to be at work for a specified period of time."