If you are a nurse or HCP what do you think of the Nursing Associate band 4 roles?

[TravellingSpoon]

Have been reading about them as my local university offers the FdSc course and it seems quite an interesting role, but I wonder if nurses find the role a hindrance, or see them as a way to get nurses on the cheap?

@drinks to a certain extent yes. It's solved the shortage of nurses we had. There is 1 RNA plus 2 band 5s in a shift. The RNA cannot do the IV so then it falls to the band 5 who might have 8 IVs to do of there own.

I'm currently a 3rd year nursing student. We have been informed or rather word in the wards is that RMN/RGN are going to be doing more of the band 6/7 roles. This is in Scotland, bit shit really for everyone in healthcare who will prob have more responsibility but be on the same pay package

I think the old fashioned training was good. Work, study, get paid, live in the nurses home if you needed to.
The RN course would probably need 4 years under that system nowadays, but that is ok.
Lots of people did what we used to call sandwich degrees in all sorts of professions back then.
This whole university training is just a way of making students pay to train.

@endofthelinefinally I would have loved to do my training the "old fashioned way". Our course is currently 50%theory 50%placement. Tbh most of the learning is through placement and every nurse I have spoken to say you don't actually learn how to nurse until your in the wards.

I'm a band 5 RN and my personal feeling is why should they have the same huge responsibilities as us but only get paid a band 4 wage. They are registered practitioners and will be responsible for oral,IM and subcut medications in my local trust and will be expected to take the same amount of patients as a RN but at a lower rate. I know we are desperately short of RN's but I feel this is a cheap way of getting feet on the floor and not paying the true worth of the job they are performing.

@ThePortlyPinUp I hear you but then I also feel that why should they be in the same pay package when we've had to go to uni to get a degree?

We don’t have the nursing associates in Scotland but I kind of wished they did as I am unable to go to uni full time at the moment, I applied to do my nursing through the open uni, got to interview but didn’t get a place due to Lack of spaces/funding. I will reapply next year but feel disheartened that I can’t get to do it, nursing associate would allow me to expand my knowledge, I currently take bloods, do minor dressings etc but would like more knowledge of more complex dressings etc and to be able to do more In my role

@nearlyfinished1moreyear but the RN's I work with now don't all have degrees, I am very proud of my degree but I can hand on heart say that the vast majority of my knowledge has been gained as I've worked.

Are these the RNs b4 the new law came into place? I worked at nursing home with many "old school" nurses who also didn't have degrees, loved hearing their stories of life in the student nurse houses

@Cerseilannisterinthesnow fingers crossed for you when you next apply and gain a place. We have quite a few students from "down south". Its such a competitive course to get into and the drop out rates are enormous. I'm training to be a RMN, we started off with 80 and currently only have 35 students left! I think the Government/NHS really need to look at why we have such a shortage of nurses and why the drop out rate of university is so high

I did the old SRN training. We worked hard but also played hard. I really feel for student nurses now. All the fun seems to have gone.

I worked along some fantastic SENs. They took charge of the wards on lower pay, which is what the associate nurses will do.

It’s nurses on the cheap, unfortunately.

Cost cutting trying to fill in the gaps because of recruitment issues and not enough interest in nursing now the bursary has been stopped.

Its such a competitive course to get into

Must be depend on where you are in the country as I know at least three local universities near me have not filled their nursing course places for the last two years. One uni has laid nursing lecturers off as the drop in student numbers has been so marked.

2 universities near me still have all if thier nursing courses in clearing.

@SleepyKat yes it must because u know my uni opened up nearly 200 extra places and the local college put on another "access to nursing" class. The drop out rate is huge. Tbh we are learning mostly values, care, compassion. A lot of things that you would think most people wanting to nurse would have naturally. We aren't actually learning about illness' in uni, that's why we go out to practice placements and consultants etc have said to me they cannot believe we are not actually getting taught the different types of mental illness etc before going onto the wards.

sleepykat it was open uni I was applying to I didn’t get the place because of lack of spaces/funding that was the reason stated on the post interview letter

My personal view is that a lot of students don't realise the reality of nursing until they start their training.
If prospective students had to do a first aid course, then work as a HCA for a year before applying, there would be fewer people dropping out.

Does anyone remember the nusing cadets course?
(Really showing my age now).

@endofthelinefinally this could be true most of us who are still on the course are what you would say are "mature" students and have worked in healthcare for a number of years as HCA before deciding to do nursing.

I remember the cadets. The only person who had been a cadet in our cohort dropped out from training withon the first 6 months (old style before degrees)
I think they were being fazed out when I trained as a nurse. We never saw them on the wards.

I don't think we should be making people pay to work on the wards while studying.
We don't make them pay to join the forces for example.
I think a reasonable compromise would be to have a minimum period of employment in the nhs post qualification and a 4 year degree course with more practical work.
4 years isn't long when you consider the career prospects, post grad training opportunities, all the different specialities you can go into.
I worked nearly 40 years and did so many different things. There are few qualifications that open so many doors.