Following Kirstie Allsopp's post, a guest blog by Belinda Phipps, CEO of the NCT

[KateMumsnet]

A couple of weeks ago, Mumsnet Blogger Kirstie Allsopp wrote a blog post in which she argued that the National Childbirth Trust is over-focused on natural birth, and that women who don't have one can feel underprepared, and even stigmatized. Her post sparked a lot of debate - have a look at the Talk thread for more background.

This week, NCT Chair Belinda Phipps has written us a guest blog in which she tackles some of Kirstie's points, and sets out how the organisation is changing to respond to the needs of all mothers. 

What do you think? Let us know if you post on this subject - or let us have your thoughts here on the thread.

[CelineMcBean]

Before lecturing me like I'm an idiot, perhaps read my posts Fabsmum? I have quoted UKO. As in replicated exactly what they wrote. They do not contact all course attendees by email post course. Regardless of what NCT writes they do we need to look at the reality.

If the problem we (royal we there) are trying to resolve is poor teaching or poor class experience relying on the packs being issued by the teacher is not the best way of doing it. How many people do not get a pack and how many do not read it and how many can remember where it is 3 months later when they've had their baby? UKO need to own and control the process. Sending an email to all course attendees would be a good way of doing that. But they don't currently by their own admission. This needs to change.

I'm sure you are an excellent teacher but some are not. I think that should be expected with so many teachers and so many courses. The fact issues occur is understandable. Failing to tackle them is not, nor is doggedly repeating everything is fine and dismissing the reports of people with valuable feedback. This is at the root of many of NCT's problems. Failing to acknowledge and tackle issues will not resolve them.

[Narked]

You know what's a 'straightforward' birth experience? ELCS.

[CelineMcBean]

Fabsmum are you suggesting that I am lying? Or do you think the person at UKO is? Who is it? Or has the person at UKO made a mistake?

Why can you not entertain the idea that what I am reporting is the truth?

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

I'm sorry they were so unfriendly at the group Gnome - at least you made some good friends at the classes ?
I thought the meeting other Mums aspect was the best thing, even though I did learn valuable things from the classes and gained confidence too, especially for the birth.

[cmt1375]

CelineMcBean I have PMed you but I have had management level confirmation that all course participants (that have given their permission to be contacted by the NCT) since 2011 have been invited to give feedback.

[mouldyironingboard]

It doesn't sound like the NCT has changed much during the past 20 years (my DC are adults now). My experience was that younger parents and single mothers didn't really fit into either the NCT classes or coffee mornings.

With my first child, I was induced and had an epidural. At the class reunion, the NCT teacher was absolutely horrified when I described how civilized it was to be sitting up in bed doing a crossword while the epidural worked the magic!

I know that the NCT promotes breastfeeding but it is wrong to make women feel bad if they give up. I chose not to breastfeed and didn't discuss it in the ante-natal group as I knew it was an unacceptable view and a completely taboo subject. A healthy Mum and healthy, thriving baby (whether breast or bottle fed) should be the obvious priority and I'm not sure the NCT has the balance completely right.

[cmt1375]

CelineMcBean please can you forward that e-mail in full to the e-mail address I PMed you. Thank you very much

[WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes]

I went to NCT ante-natal classes 9 years ago (NHS option was three one hour sessions in the middle of weekdays therefore very difficult to go to, impossible for DH). Our NCT teacher was a bit biased towards natural everything but did tell us all about the various pain reliefs etc. I have heard a lot of people complaining about her though. One of my friends wrote and complained to head office and someone high up (President or similar) phoned her up and discussed it all at great length, which was impressive, but whether anything happened as a result I don't know. The friends I made there have been brilliant, we still meet up every week 9 years later.

I also volunteered for them for several years on the committee and made many more friends via the committee, baby groups etc. They were mostly white, fairly middle class, middle income people though, not very representative of the town we live in. I never got the impression of cliqueyness or nastiness, but it must be offputting if you don't fit into that demographic. Dealings with the national part of it (as a committee member) seemed complex, bureaucratic and disorganised. I stood down about 5 or 6 years ago now, so things may have changed.

[CelineMcBean]

I have PM'd you cmt1375

[AngryGnome]

It seems the main problem with nct is that it is a national organisation run in a fairly independent way by local branches. My antenatal classes were good, my experience of the groups was atrocious.

There needs to be more central guidance for groups/classes that are run under the nct banner. A standardised approach to antenatal classes would be a good start (I might be biased, but I actually think my teachers approach of asking the class what we wanted to cover was an excellent starting point). Also, I think it would be helpful if there wa some guidance available to volunteers running groups, because from my own experience and that of others I have heard, they can be very cliquey and very inaccessible, especially to mothers who are particularly vulnerable. Post birth breastfeeding classes would be helpful. My mum said she had an nct mentor ( back in the 70s!) this was a woman who knew my mums due date, and would just call her up/ pop round for a cup of tea once a week or so in those early weeks - that sounds perfect and something I would definitely volunteer to do!

[Xmasbaby11]

50% if our antenatal class was about breast feeding. They did try to convince us that natural was best, but I have friends with kids so I knew this doesn't always happen.

I couldn't wholly breastfeed and did mixed feeding from day 1 on the advice of paediatricians. I had never heard of mixed feeding at that point.

Out of 7 women, only 3 managed to exclusively breastfeed. And that is out of 7 willing knowledgable women who were committed to trying. It should be made clearer that breastfeeding, while natural, does not come naturally to all mothers/babies and is not always the best option.

[AngryGnome]

A lot of people have said that the pro-bf stance is a problem. I don't. I think it is great to have positive support and encouragement for bf. however, I think the risk is that becaus (in my area at least) all the bf classes are antenatal, you go along with no really understanding of the types of problems you can experience etc so you don't ask any questions and the classes are pretty much useless. As a result, the nct just adds itself to the list of people that say 'you SHOULD breastfeed' but don't actually give any support to do so.

They need to run postnatal breastfeeding support groups.

[AngryGnome]

In my group of 8, only 2 of us were able/wanted to feed beyond 6 weeks.

[CelineMcBean]

They do run breastfeeding postnatal support groups. Baby Cafe are now part of NCT and do exactly that. Many Bumps & Babies groups have breastfeeding support. Those that don't should be able to point you in the direction of a breastfeeding counsellor, NCT or NHS.

Personally I find the idea of any group that won't accommodate second/third/fourth time parents not to be in the spirit of NCT and have said so in the past.

[AngryGnome]

Ah, ok thanks celine - must just be not in my area then.

[girliefriend]

I joined the nct when my dd was born mostly as my mum said it would be a good way to meet other new mums.

However I exactly the same experience as many other mums on this thread. It was ridiculously middle classed, very snobby and I don't feel I gained anything at all from joining it.

Not sure what they can do to make it more inclusive though, I am a single mum and the nct essentially felt like a marrieds only club.

[GreatSoprendo]

Just wondering where everyone is paying £300 for NCT classes.....? We are part way through their antenatal course now. Total of 16 hours of classes (plus a 'reunion') cost £170 - so just over £10 an hour for a couple to attend which seems like pretty good value. Not enough NHS places to go around in my area so opted for NCT rather than get nothing and so far we are very pleased. Tutor is very practical and honest too.
They also run Baby Cafe breastfeeding support in my area too which I have heard lots of good stuff about.

[CelineMcBean]

You could set one up AngryGnome? BabyCafe local doesn't need NHS involvement.

Obviously you may well be too busy (I know I am!) but until somebody does it nothing happens. Almost everything local will have been organised by a volunteer.

[LadyHel]

Yes Celine that's a very good point re NCT not accommodating second/third/fourth time parents.

We moved to a new area just before I was pregnant with DS2 and I didn't really know anybody, so had hoped that a refresher course might help me to make new friends and find out about things going in my new area (I didn't really need 'refreshing' per se as it had seemed that most things had occured during my first labour and felt that I knew the ropes quite well...)

The only NCT refresher course available to me was during the day with older children strictly not invited. As my DS1 was too young for playgroup / school at the time I was unable to book up for the course and the NHS didn't offer anything for 2nd time parents. I remember feeling rather disappointed and quite uncomplimentary towards the NCT (again) (sorry, just being honest). A friend from my original NCT group did have the refresher course option in her area, which she attended in the evening with her husband, so I guess it is all about where you live as to what you get.

[AngryGnome]

We paid £180 And I think that included a years membership. My midwife advised me not to go to the nhs classes if I could afford nct, as she said that nhs ones were basically for teenage mothers ...

[AngryGnome]

celine - would have loved to set one up, but the comments that I wasn't needed because I would not be useful with my mobile problems somewhat put me off...

[AngryGnome]

Mobile,? Ffs iPad. Actually meant 'mobility'!

[projectsrus]

I have had many many dealings with the NCT over the years, in many guises. I think centrally their intentions are good, but my main criticism reflect many on here:
1 - disjointed organisation, disorganised and not run professionally
2 - each branch/group tends to do their own thing, this makes it inconsistent
3 - it does tend to be cliquey
4 - it doesn't encourage feedback or new ideas, it sticks to an old formula and carries on regardless of social and cultural changes

[jaynebxl]

Well I can't comment on the NCT because 7 years ago when I was pregnant with my first I couldn't get a place on one of their antenatal classes despite being still quite early on in the pregnancy so they must have been doing something right to be so popular!