Lose our view - but regain privacy?

[Solo2]

I have to make a decision in the next few days - do we lose our lovely view of countryside/ fields/ grazing sheep but regain privacy in our garden/house - or - do we keep the view but endure loss of privacy???

I can't decide. Our garden backs onto agricultural land - firstly a privately owned field. I bought the house largely for the fantastic rural view and the sense of our garden being much bigger than it was, as the end boundary only had a wire mesh fence.

Then we discovered that people trespassed into the field and gangs of local children 'enjoyed' ogling us in our garden and at the back of the house, calling over, pulling down the fence as they tried to climb up it, throwing stones at and chasing the sheep....a trampoline was placed in the field and a bike track mowed around the perimeter. DSs were bullied and aggressed so that they stopped wanting to go into the garden at all and I stopped too.

The field owners found out about the trespass and forbid anyone going onto their land. The trampoline was taken down and the play equipment removed and we breathed a sigh of relief....

But now they're starting to come back, not quite so much as before but enough to invade our privacy. A gang of 7 children were roaming in the field late at night, the other day and the neighbour came to stare at some works we're having done in the garden...

I have to decide in the next few days - do I get a tall fence erected and block out the trespasses but also will block our view, our light, the sense that the garden is bigger than it really is??? - or do I put up privacy trellis all along, slightly restricting our view but not too much, letting in the light and preserving some sense of expansion to the garden....BUT also allowing the trespasses full view of our lives?

I've posted in other MN sections about this before but now it's 'crunch time'. So WWYD? - Gain privacy at last - but lose the view - or keep our view and tolerate privacy invasion?

Normally I'd say keep the view, but if your garden isn't really useable, due to your children being pestered, I'm afraid I'd put a proper fence up.

I'm surprised the landowner doesn't take action to secure the field properly.

Are you near lots of other houses? We have a field at the end of our garden but as there's no public footpath (and no houses on the other side of the field for severalmiles), we never see anyone in it.

I back onto a small park, which also gives us a sense if space. There are, however, trees planted up against our fence but on the park side, sanwiched tightly between our fence and another, council-owned, fence. This gives us a degree of privacy and security. Yes,it closes-in the sense of space, but I still get that from thr sky and from the upstairs windows.

Would installing a sturdy wooden fence and planting some fast-growing but not very thick trees just inside your fence be an acceptable compromise for you? Or you could grow a very thorny hedge (buckthorn?) inside a metal fence, with trees through the hedge.

Inside yourfence make it harder for outsiders ti climb the trees. Possibly choosing treeswith upwards -pointing branches as well. Otherwisoutou would have to prune them from the field side every year to make sure there were no over-hanging branches to encourage climbing or damage. But not Leylandii because they would block your lght and any sense of sky throgh the trees.

Mumblechum, lots of other houses and garden back onto the field but the trespassing is only from a few of those houses, with the biggest invasion from our next door neighbours - hence I don't want to do any kind of encounter with them. They're the ones who put the play equipment in the field and their children are the regular invaders.

They - and one or two others, specially built gates into their back fences to acces the field, despite knowing it was trespass and they encourage their children to roam there and have expressed outrage that the field owners forbid it. So they have easy access at all times to the field.

The field owners are v v elderly and never visit but their shepherd grazes their sheep there sometimes and he seem totally laissez-faire about trepassing - except when the sheep were aggressed.

Pretty candles, there are huge blackberry bushes near our boundary in the field but a big gap in the middle of these, which is weher the trespasses congregate at the foot of our garden. My ideal would be that the brambles grow fast and v v high on the field side right along and that we also have some bushes/ hedging on our side and a privacy trellis inbetween - so we'd get wildlife and some light but a greater sense of privacy.

However, these would take time to grow and am I just putting off the inevitable?

Another idea I had was to keep the boundary fairly open with privacy trellis but find - on the internet, some kind of temporary, portable screens to erect every time we want to use the garden all day, in the summer. My idea was of something like a huge, 3 metre tall green canvas/ tent material screen you could unroll - with metal poles either side to stick in the ground.

However, I can't find anything like this for sale, although someone did point me int he direction of sunshade/sails - but these are more horizontal than vertical and used really to block sun from above - not boundaries at the sides...

Has anyone come across anything like what I need?

Am I just again, though, stalling the decision and should simply grit my teeth and put up a fence? Incidentally, I'm a single mum and this is partly why I don't want to confront any of the trespasses or neighbours, as I feel daunted and nervous of this kind of encounter.

Have you consulted the owners? To an extent you and they both want the same thing: to discourage the trsspassers. As your house - through no action of yours - attracts the tresspassers, would they help you make it less attractive to them? Perhaps they would share the cost with you of planting some vicious thorny hedging to complement the brambles?

How high is your current fence?

I did once try to buy the field from the owners and it was around then that they found out about people using it. They don't want to sell the field but back then asked me to contact the local police/ community support officer whenever I saw people in the field. I'd mentioned the vandalism to our fence and the underage drinking in the field and that I wanted to improve security.

However, I don't/didn't feel I could be constantly phoning the police if there were kids in the field, as it's not my field and a lot of the time, the trespasses are children/teenagers and I'm sure the police have better things to do. Also, the last thing I want is to fall out with my neighbours.

However, they did agree to improve the field boundaries and got their shepherd to do so - but what they really meant was a few more bits of wire up where the fence had fallen down and nothing else. They haven't viewed the field themselves at all, as they're v v elderly.

I do plan to plant/ train some of the brambles to grow in the field, off the plants already there, to try to plug the gap and currently have paid the owners a vast, vast sum of money to allow me to access their field for my workers, whilst works are being done in our back garden.

This is partly why the more recent trespassing in the field really, really gets to me, as I'm paying for the right of temporary access for workmen and the trespasses are simply strolling out of their garden gate and inviting their friends to do so too.

I'd LOVE to plant prickly bramble right across their garden gate accessing the field and put up barbed wire too - but this would be a step too far, in terms of the neighbours and it's really up to the owners to do that kind of thing.

I'll mention to the owners again about the ongoing field invasion, when my workers have finished needing access to the back boundary of the garden. But I doubt they'll do much.

The current fence is probably about 4 to 5 feet high only and of rusty wire mesh between concrete posts. The brambles on either side of the big gap in the middle are about 6ft however. So we get an obscured view either end and then this wide open width of about 18ft I think. The brambles will have to be cut right back/ down when I get some kind of new fencing there. So the natural boundary will go at this time until new brambles re-grow.

If I plant prickly bushes on the field side, I would expect the trespasses will just trample them down.

STILL can't decide what to do......

Do you think a "Private" or "Trespassers will be prosecuted" sign would help?

Good idea, LaundryLyne. Not sure if the owners would be into this, but I can certainly ask them. Unfortunately, it may not deter the intruders as they seem to think it's their right to roam on the land and don't care that it's trespass.

I STILL can't decide what to do - screen off the view - or leave it open? Regain privacy - or enjoy the light and openess of our garden....Perhaps I should get an aggressive gaurd dog trained to snarl and bark whenever it sees people in the field - although this would probably only entice the trespasses to aggravate the dog too!!

If anyone else has further thoughts, please let me know.

You can't control what goes on in the field - even the brambles cannot be relied upon because they could be cut down. You have to do it from within your boundary, where you have control.

How about a two-part fence: the posts 7/8' high, but the solid fence panel only 5' high. Then the fencer fits another solid fence panel to fill the space at the top. You plant your privacy plants in your garden and encourage the brambles in the fields. In a few years time, when you feel the plants are sufficiently mature enough to adequately protect you, you replace the top panel of the fencing with trellis.

Of course, that wd be a more expensive option. You could go straight for the part-trellis option. Also, if you can wait until winter to fit new fencing, that would be the time the brambles naturally die back and 'pruning' at that time wd I think encourage them to grow back more vigorously the following year.

That's another good idea, PrettyCandles.

Overnight, I've also thought about close together picket fencing, which allows a view and light but is also a bit like privacy trellis - and would allow people to see in if they came up close. the idea would be to grow climbers along it too....

Incidentally, does anyone at all know of any portable, temporary privacy screening that you can put up and take down easily - like a tall canvass roll-out sheet???

Try googling "outdoor privacy screen". There are a lot of interesting-looking results, but my connection is too slow to browse them properly.

Thanks again PrettyCandles. Haven't yet spotted anything that seems tall enough but will keep looking

It might not exactly suit your surroundings but you can get tall bamboo sheeting which would be perfect for screening your garden off.
It's fairly inexpensive and easy to erect.

ultimately I think you are going to have to put up a fence.
And I would be really annoyed at having to pay for workmen to access the field when tresspassers are doing so for free. I would bring this up with the field owner. If they cant mange the field and the current situation, you cant pay them for access.

A fence can always be taken down when kids have moved on.

Bear in mind its summer hols just now, so situation might get better when schools are back...

Thanks for the bamboo sheeting idea, Bethjeff. I'll look into that.

Scaredofthedark - I do feel p*ed off that I'm paying £1,000 to access the field - as a one-off and the next door neighbours use it for free all the time. They've still got a swing rope and seat tied onto the only tree in the field, which stands between our properties boundaries. They've really assumed ownership of the field with the gate buitl specially in the fence by the dad.

They've currently got friends staying, with teenager children and the noise has been incredible - starting at 8.30pm - my DCs bedtime and not ending until midnight, as gangs of children jump on their garden trampoline (that used to be in the field) and then run around the field screaming at the v tops of their voices without a single pause for 3.5 hrs at a time, whilst the adults sit talking and laughing loudly right near my bedroom window, getting drunk and louder as the night goes on...

Sorry...bit of a rant, after some sleepless nights.....I just have no idea why any parent would NOT stop their children trespassing, once they've been told firmly NOt to do so, by the owners who've raised the problem of liability if the children got hurt on their own land...

This is my plan....I've now found some fencing on the net (Jacksons Pallisade Palliframe Panels) that will cut off a lot of the view but retain light and air and some of the view through the thin fence slat gaps. Then I'm going to grow climbers up it on my side.

Meanwhile, once my works are finished, I'm going to let the owners know that where the machinery for my works has made ruts in the field grass, at the bottom of my garden and beyond, I'll re=seed this area and re-train the brambles - to return the field to it's previous state, as agreed with them.

However, my ulterior motive is that I'll also get that part of the field temporarily fenced off with orange plastic stuff my builders are using and stick a notice there saying, "Keep off this area. Re-seeding". I'll tell the owners I'm doing this because of the continued trespassing into the field and my concern that whilst I intend to return the field to its previous state, the trespasses may thwart that - hence the retained temporary barrier in part of the field.

I'll then suggest they might want to consider putting up a Trespasses will be prosecuted notice and doing something about the gate in the neighbours fence that accesses the field. I think there are two or three others who've also put gates in their boundary fences to access the field - namely, friends of the neighbours.

Just to add that the situation would have been more tolerable (despite the lack of privacy and constant noise) if the childrne hadn't ganged up on, humiliated and aggressed my DCs. But that made me see red. No one messes with my sons and gets away with it! Not that I want any big confrontation however.

I'd rather take appropriate and legitmate/ legal action to gain my goals.

And when thei neighbour children move on and grow up (hopefully without the teenage phase of drink and rugs and wild parties in the field too!), then I could open up the view again.

£1000?

I'm gobsmacked. When our fence blew down the neighbour didn't charge us a penny to access her garden to build a new fence. Even though the fencers mved a shed she didn't want touched (we apologised and smoothed things over with an alcohlic peace-offering). Neither did we when the neighbour on the other side wanted to replace his fence.

If it was a crop field and you were going to cause damage, fair enough. But clearly it is not.

I think you're being optimistic about the re-seeding fence and sign.

TBH, though, if there was a field behind my house and I could put a gate in my fence to access it I would do so. But I would not allow my dc to harrass the neighbours or abuse the field.

Prettycandles, the field owners had already made it clear that they didn't want anyone in their field so I offered to pay towards both accessing it and effectively dumping and spreading several lorry loads of soil from a pool pit in our garden.

Incidentally, since earlier today, I've had a really, really nasty experience directly with the neighbour dad. His daughter had come into our garden, via the field and has spoiled some of the works being done (which are costing me a bomb!). He was in the field with other family members and I called to him and asked v nicely if he could please keep his children away from our garden and the field areas I'm currently responsible for.

I also reminded him that the field owners had asked everyone never to trespass in their field and added that I was concerned that his DCs might get hurt by the works/ excavations and machinery near and in our garden.

He told me point blank that he thought it was completely unreasonable for the field owners to forbid people using their privately owned field and he had a right to roam and he was going to do so as was his family and friends. Basically, it was big f*-you!

He did SAY he'd keep the DCs away from our garden and works but knowing him and his DCs I doubt he will and in fact he'll now 'up the ante' with extra field invasion and coming into our currently unboundaried garden.

The boundary currently has two large machines in the way, plus some sacks of grit and some large boulders but his DCs and he still sidle around all this.

I haven't caught them actually inside our garden itself until I saw his DD today and there are clear footsteps in the newly gritted edging to the pond.

So now I feel really, really aggressed and afraid really, as I'm a single mum on my own with two small DCs and no one around. I feel as if I don't even want to go into our gardend and should I see his family in our garden and confront them again, worry they'll respond aggressively - or maybe they'll just stick to standing beyond the garden boundary area, staring and sneering.

I can't call the police as trespass isn't illegal - just an issue around potential sueing and liability etc etc. Also, it's not my field and I can't prove they've come into our garden, although i'm sure they have. Last yr, we saw footprints in the garden soil near where the fence had been partly torn down and knew the next door DCs had been playing there that day and late into the night.

I'll email the field owners but right now just feel invaded and rather violated and afraid really. I know it's probably stupid of me and I'll probably feel better in the morning and I also of course feel v v angry.

Oh I didn't realise you had negotiated using it for spoil. That's a bit different.

Perhaps you should consider setting up a video camera - with automatic infrared - in a bedroom window...

And, unless it's already mixed up, you might want to consider retaining the topsoil from your excavations and using it to create a new bed along the field boundary.

Haven't got CCTV but would like it right now!! Should I stay up all night on gaurd or just hope they don't do any real damage? It's so difficult...

The tope soil is to be used over the spoil soil for the field, as I agreed to aid re-growth of the grass where the soil's been put but not sure now if the neighbours' children might have been playing around on the soil/spoil and disrupting the lovely smooth finish my workmen achieved just as they've ruined the lovely smooth down grit around the pond. Grrr

The gang of children is out there again now and the noise they're making is once again stopping my DCs sleeping. They start outdoor play and screaming around 8.30pm and end at midnight, despite the youngest being only 6 or 7! So...I wish it would rain tonight, although that didn't stop them yesterday jumping on their trampoline in toorrential rain whilst shrieking as loudly as they could!

Anyone following this thread, I need further advice, as my neighbours have now threatened me.

They came round to complain that they've had a visit from the shepherd who grazes sheep on the field backing our gardens to say that they MUST stop accessing the private land. He wired up the gate that they'd put into their fence.

I'd had to contact the field owners to let them know I couldn't police their land. There'd been lots of trespassing in the field and then into our garden and some damage - rectifiable - to our pond build by the neighbours and their children. I talked to the neighbours and asked them to keep their children away from the works, as someone could get hurt, my pond build damaged or the soil distribution area disturbed. I am currently responsibly for returning the field to it's previous state. My pond construction firm and I are jointly responsible for ensuring no one gets hurt on the site.

Neighbour was aggressive and I backed off.

His wife came round today and has said (in so many words) that a) she WILL still allow her DCs to use the field and was I going to keep telling on them? b) she believes it's illegal for us to distribute garden soil on greenbelt land, as it's counted as domestic waste and is threatening to report this (despite the field owners letting me pay to do this).

Does anyone know if this IS illegal and can she therefore 'blackmail' me so I don't report their trespass continuing?

In the light of this, should I erect a much sturdier fence that screens out the field totally, instead of the one with slats that I planned to erect that would allow still some light and air and an obscured view?

Nice . I would definitely think about getting a video camera and quietly rigging it up inside a window with a good view of your property. Also keeping log of everything that goes on between you and your neighbours.

Although tresspass isn't illegal on it's own, causing damage when tresspassing is. So they don't have a leg to stand on WRT your property. You just need incontrovertible evidence.

Of course it isn't your responsibility to police the field!

IIRC from when my brother did some extensive work on his garden, moving large amounts of soil counts as landfill, not domestic waste, and needs some sort of notification. But that was WRT to filling in a redundant pond, rather than excavating one. They decided not to fill, but to landscape around the pond (turned it into a sort of dell), so that they would not have potential buyers put off when discovering that the property was marked 'landfill'.

Solo

I would absolutely recommend calling the police. I would suggest you call the police every time they trespass in the field. The police deal with anti social behaviour, which is what this is. They are not going to get fed up with you calling - they are expected to answer calls like that.

Please call them more regularly.

Thanks for the support and advice. I've never called the police about them although the owners asked me to do so every time I saw trespassing in the field. I don't want to provoke my neighbours to this degree,a lthough it looks as if we've provoked each other to the limit now!

After getting some advice, I've put in writing the situation and our different positions on trespassing in the field and dropped it round at the neighbours. I'm sure they'll hate this but should anything happen to them if they intrude on our land/ pond site, I'd be liable. So I have to let them know that I strongly disapprove of them trespassing in the field, which I'm currently 'renting' for access and soil distribution, as they can currently enter our garden which doesn't have more than a flimsy barrier up at the moment.

Actually, a few moments ago, I was in the garden talking to my workmen and the neighbour is on her trampoline with her DCs (it's usually ONLY her DCs) bouncing up and down, so she can look over and schrieking with her kids! I guess she's aiming to make her presence felt! As soon as I can, I want to plant tall climbers and trees on that boundary too.

Your field-owning 'neighbours' don't sound very neighbourly: "You keep an eye on our field, you call the police, you deal with the fallout from the other neighbours, while we sit back and do nothing other than charge you hefty amounts for being a good neighbour."

evergreen clematus - grows to 40 foot and produces lovely flowers at easter time - I would get a couple or three

for the back get russian vine -it will outgrow or out run just about anything - put it away from the sun to let it grow towards the sun and on trellis it will fill around 40 foot in two to three years

sorry you are having trouble with your rather horrid neighbours

Thanks Prettycandles and ivykaty44. the field owners are v old in their late 70s and don't live near where their field is and probably have a lot less motivation than I do to monitor trespassing. They don't have to live with the intrusion on privacy and the noise. So I can understand that some of the responsibility will have to rest with me.

I'm having my gardening company come out next week to advise me about trees and climbers for screening. Thanks for the ideas ivykaty.