After you, no after YOU!

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello. Welcome to the new Etiquette topic.

We hope you enjoy it in (precisely) the correct fashion.

oh how utterly charming!

lovely.

now F off.

only joking

oh good show, MNHQ.

Is the advice all going to be based on Jilly Cooper, like when there is a conversation about class?

Oh, how exciting

Can we start with the issue of how to settle the bill at the end of a meal/coffee/whatever? How many times should you both say "let me get this" "no, let me" before one of you lets the other pay? I favour the "let me pay" "OK, thanks" approach - is this very rude?

Depends on the context Maisie. For instance, I often have lunch with my brother, one of us will offer to pay, and the other will just accept, and then offer to pay next time. That is because we know each other well, and know we'll be having lunch together again within the next week or so.

However, if you are unsure, I think it's best to decline their kind offer of payment at least once. That way you don't look like you expected them to pay, IYSWIM.
So:
"Let me pay."
"No, let me."
"No, I insist."
"Well, alright then."

Perhaps offer to pay next time, or if there might not be a next time, buy a token gift to show your appreciation.

My post was a bit tongue in cheek, MrsChemist

I know but that is how happy I am about this topic.

OMG someone is going to ask about tipping etiquette and the topic will implode!

I'm sharing in your joy! And I do appreciate your taking the time to respond

Is this thread too infant to cope with an imploding topic, do you think? It would be good to get a heated debate going about the merits or otherwise of tipping!

True, it would be a good starter, although I would end up (politely) disagreeing with lots of non-tippers.

I only tip if I receive excellent service - where do you stand on that? I've worked as a waitress in my student days, so I know how welcome tips are, but I begrudge tipping when the service has been shoddy.

I refuse to tip shoddy service, I will tip a little if the service has been good but nothing I wouldn't already expect. I tip well if I feel the staff have gone above and beyond what is expected of them.
Although I will also tip handsomely if the service has been ok, but I can see the staff are rushed of their feet, and are doing well under the circumstances.

I've worked in pubs and bars for a while so, on the whole, I like to be generous. I know it's not an easy job to get right, and I know many people who couldn't put up with so much abuse for so little pay.
Hats off to the service sector, I say.

I agree - although I do wish that the pay reflected the work that staff do put in, rather than being kept low by (some)greedy restaurant owners, with tips being used to bolster poor wages. It can be a thankless sector to work in.

Jolly good!

Re the tipping - they offer to pay, you say no, it's your treat, they insist, you say "no really", they insist again, you say "well it will definately be my treat next time".

I have a question. Eating in the streets is Bad and Wrong (as I told DSs earlier). They want to know why. "Because it's common" didn't appear to be a good enough answer. What can I tell them?

I don't mean re the tipping, I mean re the bill-paying.

Re tipping - if there's already a service charge, then usually nothing unless the waiter/waitress was particularly good. Without a service charge, I tip regardless of quality of service because I'm weak.

Indeed. Although, on the other side of the coin, there are staff who think, "I get paid a pittance, so I don't think I should put any effort in."
That always annoys me. Pay doesn't reflect the amount of effort you put into something.

Hassled - in what context were you talking about eating in the streets? The reason I ask is obviously that you get cafes with outside seating and ice cream vans etc. Was there a specific incident you were referring to?

I would have thought eating in the streets was bad because it increases your chances of dropping food, and thus littering, or, you might spill some on your clothes and you would most probably need a napkin afterwards anyway.
I'd say it's because it's messy.

Do you know what's extra Bad and Wrong, pissing in the street, like the delightful young lady (I used the term loosely) who has just decided to drop her knickers and wizz on my neighbours garden wall.

In the last answer I assumed you meant just wandering around the street with food in your hand. In outside seating at a cafe etc. then it's obviously perfectly acceptable.

Yes - messiness is a much better answer. Trying to explain social niceties to an 8 year old is surprisingly hard and I just felt like the complete snob I am and fight hard against.

Pissing in the street is indeed Bad and Wrong :o.

Yes, pissing in the street is always Just Plain Wrong. Yeuch...

I should have thrown my copy of Jane Austen's Guide to Good Manners at her, although the author doesn't go into relieving oneself in the street. It's mostly about leaving calling cards and when it is appropriate to introduce acquaintances

WRT tipping - my DH was a waiter for many years including FOH manager etc (he was a chef too) so he knows how well appreciated tips are and how hard you have to work sometimes... but he also therefore knows when people are doing a bad job.

so no, we don't always tip. our waitress the other day was worse than useless. didn't even ask how DH wanted his steak done!

oh - but regarding good service, I feel politeness/friendliness is far more important than efficiency/speed.
so a slow, scatty waiter who was apologetic about it and who was nice to us would probably get a tip, whereas somebody who got everything right but didn't smile and was grumpy wouldn't get a tip.