I follow Hare Krishna philosophy. AMA

[HareKrishna123]

Do you have any questions about the philosophy or anything else? AMA

I mean I've met women who knew him and they feel differently. And they're certainly not timid little women sat in the corner agreeing with everything either. But I can understand you feel angry with the treatment you've received. It's just not everybody's experience has been the same.

Yes! :)

Thank you for the post. Lots of questions answered already.

What is the bindi like white strip of something worn down the nose? Apologies, but when young, I thought it was a piece of chewing gum stuck on their nose. What is its purpose and meaning? Also- what is it made from?

Oh goodness, now that you say it, it does look like that 🤣
The bit on the forehead represents Krishna's footprint and the bit on the nose represents a Tulasi leaf, Tulasi being a dear devotee of Krishna.

It's made from clay. Ideally clay from a lake that Krishna's dearest devotees are said to have bathed in.

We apply it to remind ourselves that the body has been gifted to us as a temple for the soul, and that we can use it in service to God.

Please don't try to dismiss me by implying I'm biased from anger. I'm correcting you on facts, not experiences.

You started this thread by claiming you follow HK philosophy, which was set down by Prabhupada. You soon made it clear that in fact you don't follow key points of the philosophy, such as regarding gay sex or sex outside of marriage, and have misinterpreted others, such as saying women can't cook on their periods because they should be resting.

Every single other person on the thread with HK experience (four, I think) has disagreed with you. Yet you continue to present yourself as an authority on Hare Krishna philosophy.

It is not a matter of experience or opinion that Prabhupada believed in equality for the sexes. Here are some quotes from the man himself - full context with even more misogyny, here: https://www.expandthebliss.com/post/q-a-why-srila-prabhupada-wrote-woman-likes-a-man-who-is-very-expert-at-rape

*A man is always famous for his aggression toward a beautiful woman, and such aggression is sometimes considered rape. Although rape is not legally allowed, it is a fact that a woman likes a man who is very expert at rape.

There was a rape case in Calcutta, and the lawyer was very intelligent. He some way or other made the woman admit, "Yes, I felt happiness." So he was released. "Here is consent." And that's a fact. Because after all, sex, rape or no rape, they will feel some pleasure. So the lawyer, by hook and crook, made the woman agree, "Yes, I felt some pleasure." "Now, there is consent." So he was released. After all, it is an itching sensation. So either by force or by willingly, if there is itching, everyone feels relieved itching it. That's a psychology. It is not that the women do not like rape. They like sometimes. They willingly. That is the psychology. Outwardly they show some displeasure, but inwardly they do not. This is the psychology. Morning Walk – May 11, 1975, Perth

Women must be engaged otherwise they will be inclined to think of sex only. They are called kamini. Unless there is sufficient engagement their only thoughts will be concentrated on sex. Letter to: Satsvarupa -- London 25 August, 1971

Woman reporter: Would you say that women are inferior to men?
Prabhupada: Yes.

Woman reporter: But you say women are subordinate to men.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is also natural. Because when the husband and wife are there or the father and daughter is there, so the daughter is subordinate to the father and the wife is subordinate to the husband.
Woman reporter: What happens when women are not subordinate to men?
Prabhupada: Then there is disruption. There is disruption, social disruption. If the woman does not become subordinate to man, then there is social disruption. Therefore, in the Western countries there are so many divorce cases because the woman does not agree to become subordinate to man. That is the cause.

Woman reporter: Is there anything wrong when the woman works?
Prabhupada: There are so many things wrong.

Woman reporter: What about women who do not have children?
Prabhupada: Well, that is also another unnatural thing. Sometimes they use contraceptives. They kill children, abortion. That is also not very good. These are all sinful activities. These are sinful activities, to kill child in the womb and take shelter of abortion. These are all sinful activities. One has to suffer for that.

Woman reporter: And if women were subordinate to men, it would solve all of our problems?
Prabhupada: Yes,

The article you linked to and lots of podcasts/videos/articles have answered those points so I won't repeat them.

I am just sharing my experience. I have fellow Hare Krishna friends who are openly gay for example, and are happily accepted by the community 🤷
Or women who are single and happily accepted
Or women who are in leadership roles...

...I just feel everyone's experience is different. It wouldn't be such a big movement if all experiences had been like the one you had.

What is considered the best thing to be reincarnated as?

A human, actually! It's said to be the only form in which we can think more deeply about who we are and not just follow our animal instincts

I am just sharing my experience.

Then your thread should be called "AMA about my experience in my local Hare Krishna group."

Instead you claimed you follow Hare Krishna philosophy which includes:

• Women are subservient to men
• Women cannot be leaders
• Women can't perform certain activities on their period as they are unclean
• Women who don't want children are unnatural
• The use of contraception is a sin
• Being gay is a sin
• Any sex for pleasure is a sin

And a load of other elements I'm sure you don't agree with. I'm quite sure there is no defence of Prabhupada's extreme misogyny that you actually agree with, but for some reason you're intent on pretending he was some progressive feminist who preached that women can do anything equal to men.

You've found a group of people who ignore most aspects of the philosophy and follow the bits they found palatable. That's much better than following the nonsense above but you need to be clear about it and stop misrepresenting the religion. You do NOT follow Hare Krishna philosophy.

And for the last time, please stop talking about my experience. I haven't said anything at all about my experience, just corrected you on your factually incorrect statements.

Okay. If it's possible, I'll rename the thread.

But to answer your point on

but for some reason you're intent on pretending he was some progressive feminist who preached that women can do anything equal to men

This is because the women I know who actually met him and spent a lot of time with him, have told me that Prabhupada told them as such. That Prabhupada chastised men who said or acted any differently and he chastised men who tried to hold the women back. And I could quote lots of examples, like you have above, of these conversations.

To me, Prabhupada, born in 1896 in India, was of a different time where things that were normal and not controversial then are now. His intention and his example are as important to understand as his words. It's a bit like reading a Roald Dahl book and going shock horror I can't believe his stereotype of fat people. It was okay when Roald Dahl wrote the book to write in that way. It isn't now. It's great that times have moved things forward. And I'm not going to reject his books due to his humanity.

Are you from the UK by the way? The temple president of the biggest and busiest temple in the UK is a woman. Would that be the case if the philosophy was very strong on the "women can't be leaders" point?

My brother joined HK as a teenager. Like you we were born Hindu but my parents were very secular and it really was just lip service (until they got much older). I am now definitely agnostic, leaning towards atheism. My brother was fundamentally changed by being a Hare Krishna devotee and not in a good way. He is now in his 50s and from his conversion till now he has split himself from the family fundamentally. He believes in doctrines which are the very opposite to the modern, liberal, tolerance-centric way we were all raised. He believes his wife is subservient to him, he believes that our parents, me, and our other brother (Baha’i convert) are bad people because we don’t venerate Krishna. This is just the tip of the iceberg, but suffice to say that in my experience HK encourages wholehearted devotion to the detriment of family, teaches unwavering intolerance and misogyny. I’m sorry, but to come on here and say it’s all individuality and light is just not the experience I’ve seen firsthand

@MeowCatPleaseMeowBack
OMG, that interview is shocking.

I personally would (have) preferred a more progressive religion. Somewhere where they say, ah well, yes, ideally we only have sex to have kids but… you know, it’s a nice thing etc.

Oh my goodness I'm so sorry for that experience. It's clear as this discussion progresses that I've been lucky to find a liberal/progressive/sane group of people to hang out with who don't treat people as "us and them" whether that's gender or religious differences and that's not the case everywhere. I can't change the title of this thread as PP suggested but hopefully people reading through will get the idea.

....the ones I've met that do say that...the "only for children" being an ideal that (in my circle) is widely understood only a few follow

That's somebody who does follow the philosophy. The most important part of it is that you mustn't be attached to anything except Krishna, including other people. If you become too attached, you won't go to the Hare Krishna version of heaven. If you die thinking of anybody except Krishna, a spouse or child or friend or anybody, you won't go to heaven. Therefore you must be aloof and only think of Krishna because we never know when we might die.

Other devotees are useful because they keep you Krishna conscience. Non-devotees are useful as potential recruits, so you can bring them into the fold. Anybody who won't convert is to be avoided and will stop you going to heaven.

Women being subservient is also very important. Most of the men have a veneer of respect and politeness to women not in their family, a bit like you indulge a child, but they know we are silly creatures who will drag them into sin if not kept under control.

This is very normal for a serious devotee.

Have you heard of the podcast “let’s talk about sects”? I’ve just heard an episode about the founder of the Hare Krishna movement and the slightly darker side of it. Worth a listen.

If it was only slightly dark they didn't do enough research. The interview posted above gives a flavour. There was also widespread sexual abuse in the Hare Krishna schools. Much financial corruption. The gurus at the top have riders for temples they grace with a visit.

Oh that's interesting! Have you ever met someone who thought they are the reincarnation of someone else? Or an adult who thinks a child is?

Not personally but I've had past life regressions, and read lots of accounts

Can I ask more about your past lives? Where you in a different body/life form?