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AMA

I’ve just got back from living as a medieval person, AMA

362 replies

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 05/02/2025 11:57

First time in my life I’ve ever done anything worthy of an AMA!

OP posts:
TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2025 09:30

Come to think of it, would soapwort even be around at this time of year? Does it keep, if you picked a stash in the summer?

OP posts:
CrystalSingerFan · 07/02/2025 09:46

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2025 09:11

We used soft soap that someone had made.
With hot water it works very effectively for greasy washing up.

That's cool! I still hope to try making it one day. Along with rushlights...

CrystalSingerFan · 07/02/2025 09:52

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2025 09:15

I don’t know if you have read the Ruth Goodman book I mentioned, but her main thesis is that wood shortage > switch to coal for many people > no constant free supply of lye > complete change in cleaning and laundry methods including much more buying of soap.

That is the most fascinating thing I've read on Mumsnet (including FWR)! There's gotta be an academic thesis in that? Or maybe it's already been written by Ruth? Off to the library for me...

CrystalSingerFan · 07/02/2025 10:03

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2025 09:30

Come to think of it, would soapwort even be around at this time of year? Does it keep, if you picked a stash in the summer?

Good question. The RHS doesn't say. However, I found this: dyeing-crafts.co.uk/how-to-scour-and-mordant/make-soapwort-soap/

Also, not far from Singleton, is the NT's Uppark House, where they grow soapwort in the gardens and famously used it to clean textiles.

"Lady Meade-Fetherstonhaugh's ... work in restoring the brocade curtains with the aid of soap made of the herb Saponaria is briefly mentioned, but those who have not been to Uppark would hardly appreciate from this account the extent of the labour and its almost miraculous results." That's posh.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2025 10:21

CrystalSingerFan · 07/02/2025 10:03

Good question. The RHS doesn't say. However, I found this: dyeing-crafts.co.uk/how-to-scour-and-mordant/make-soapwort-soap/

Also, not far from Singleton, is the NT's Uppark House, where they grow soapwort in the gardens and famously used it to clean textiles.

"Lady Meade-Fetherstonhaugh's ... work in restoring the brocade curtains with the aid of soap made of the herb Saponaria is briefly mentioned, but those who have not been to Uppark would hardly appreciate from this account the extent of the labour and its almost miraculous results." That's posh.

Ah if you use the roots you can get those year round.
Most washing is going to happen in warmer times of year though. We did a bit of cleaning for St Bridget’s Day but I am sure the full spring clean and wash of textiles is going to wait until you can get things dry outside.

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WomenInConstruction · 07/02/2025 10:37

CrystalSingerFan · 07/02/2025 09:52

That is the most fascinating thing I've read on Mumsnet (including FWR)! There's gotta be an academic thesis in that? Or maybe it's already been written by Ruth? Off to the library for me...

Well in that case... You (or most people on this thread for that matter 😁) may want to listen to this...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0hsdmrt?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

The whole series is fascinating, but this episode covers elements of washing in bygone times and I think (from memory so don't sue me if I'm wrong) includes the topic of factors in changing washing habits.

MysteriousUsername · 07/02/2025 10:50

I was talking to one of my DC last night who is at uni and he told me he's joined the re-enactment society! I was very pleased and told him about what you'd done. Unfortunately he hasn't been to the Weald and Downland Museum since he was small, so I will have to take him when he's home.

He's loved history since he was young (thanks to Horrible Histories) and loved going to the Mediaeval Festival when it was at Herstmonceux.

Are there are any re-enactment clubs he could join in Sussex once he's left uni?

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2025 10:58

WomenInConstruction · 07/02/2025 10:37

Well in that case... You (or most people on this thread for that matter 😁) may want to listen to this...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0hsdmrt?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

The whole series is fascinating, but this episode covers elements of washing in bygone times and I think (from memory so don't sue me if I'm wrong) includes the topic of factors in changing washing habits.

Edited

Looks brilliant, thank you.

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TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2025 11:07

MysteriousUsername · 07/02/2025 10:50

I was talking to one of my DC last night who is at uni and he told me he's joined the re-enactment society! I was very pleased and told him about what you'd done. Unfortunately he hasn't been to the Weald and Downland Museum since he was small, so I will have to take him when he's home.

He's loved history since he was young (thanks to Horrible Histories) and loved going to the Mediaeval Festival when it was at Herstmonceux.

Are there are any re-enactment clubs he could join in Sussex once he's left uni?

I think there’s a branch of Regia Anglorum which does early medieval but there are probably other groups doing different eras too. However if he’s doing it at uni that will plug him into the wider reenactment community and he shouldn’t have too much trouble finding something somewhere to match his interests.

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GnomeDePlume · 07/02/2025 11:50

Did you have access to honey?

Many years ago, I made a honey ale (no hops). DH drank the last pint about a year after it was made. We didn't have the kit at the time to test it but reckoned it was around 7%. It was deceptively easy to drink.

Cider is also something you could brew if you have a plentiful supply of apples and pears.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2025 12:42

Yes, we got through a lot of honey, probably too much.
While obviously mead did exist, the thing about ale is that it was made from barley which is easy to grow in this country and doesn’t make the best bread, so it was a quick and efficient way to get and consume calories. Honey is always going to be harder to get hold of so you wouldn’t have much to spare.

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LoveLabradors · 07/02/2025 12:53

This is such is such a brilliant thread, thank you. Please can I ask how you found food hygiene? I often think I would struggle with how it was but also realise it’s from a privileged position of never being really hungry. I was wondering what lack of sanitation, grubbiness, grit or other “bits” making its way in to food and storage of food was like?
If I had to grab items to travel back in time it would be a hot water bottle, tweezers, lip balm and my glasses but suspect I would be a poor time traveller. Thanks to this thread I’ve now added wellies to that!
My favourite book as a child was “A traveller in time” by Alison Uttley. I read it again a few years ago. I live in a c17th cottage and often daydream about past lives in my home.

CaptainMyCaptain · 07/02/2025 12:54

CrystalSingerFan · 07/02/2025 09:52

That is the most fascinating thing I've read on Mumsnet (including FWR)! There's gotta be an academic thesis in that? Or maybe it's already been written by Ruth? Off to the library for me...

It in The Domestic Revolution by Ruth Goodman which is about how Britain was an early adopter of coal as fuel which affected our cooking methods, house design and more.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2025 13:11

LoveLabradors · 07/02/2025 12:53

This is such is such a brilliant thread, thank you. Please can I ask how you found food hygiene? I often think I would struggle with how it was but also realise it’s from a privileged position of never being really hungry. I was wondering what lack of sanitation, grubbiness, grit or other “bits” making its way in to food and storage of food was like?
If I had to grab items to travel back in time it would be a hot water bottle, tweezers, lip balm and my glasses but suspect I would be a poor time traveller. Thanks to this thread I’ve now added wellies to that!
My favourite book as a child was “A traveller in time” by Alison Uttley. I read it again a few years ago. I live in a c17th cottage and often daydream about past lives in my home.

Traveller In Time is one of my all time favourite books too!

Food hygiene- we made quite an effort because we didn’t want to poison everyone, so washing up in hot water etc was important no matter how inconvenient. Inevitably we were using a lot of standard bought foods decanted into appropriate containers, so we weren’t having to deal with things coming in exactly the state they would have. You can make airtight lids with cloth dipped in melted beeswax.

The deer and rabbits were skinned and processed by people in the group who knew what they were doing because you would not want to take risks on meat being tainted.

I have a little pot of authentic lip balm I made myself- just sweet almond oil and beeswax.

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GnomeDePlume · 07/02/2025 13:21

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2025 12:42

Yes, we got through a lot of honey, probably too much.
While obviously mead did exist, the thing about ale is that it was made from barley which is easy to grow in this country and doesn’t make the best bread, so it was a quick and efficient way to get and consume calories. Honey is always going to be harder to get hold of so you wouldn’t have much to spare.

You prompted me to see if I could find the recipe I used (I couldnt, moved house too often). I didnt remember a lot of honey being used. I think it was more an addition to add flavour or to make a special ale rather than being a daily ale.

I guess what you were making was a small ale. The daily clean water drink.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2025 13:25

GnomeDePlume · 07/02/2025 13:21

You prompted me to see if I could find the recipe I used (I couldnt, moved house too often). I didnt remember a lot of honey being used. I think it was more an addition to add flavour or to make a special ale rather than being a daily ale.

I guess what you were making was a small ale. The daily clean water drink.

It wasn’t particularly small; I would have done a second running of water through the malt if I had had another bucket, and that would have been much weaker.

I have a book on mead making which has wine and ale meads in- I might dig it out and think about making an ale mead just for fun. I have done wine meads in the past.

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GnomeDePlume · 07/02/2025 13:50

Made mead with DSIL. It does take a lot of honey.

Cider is a good one to try for reenactment purposes in the autumn. You pulp the apples or pears (you can do this with a heavy lump of wood end on in a bucket). Pressing doesn't need to be high tech. I think traditionally it was filtered through straw.

You can just let it go with whatever yeasts are growing on the fruit skins.

The only problem with cider making is that it does ferment for a long time IME.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2025 13:59

GnomeDePlume · 07/02/2025 13:50

Made mead with DSIL. It does take a lot of honey.

Cider is a good one to try for reenactment purposes in the autumn. You pulp the apples or pears (you can do this with a heavy lump of wood end on in a bucket). Pressing doesn't need to be high tech. I think traditionally it was filtered through straw.

You can just let it go with whatever yeasts are growing on the fruit skins.

The only problem with cider making is that it does ferment for a long time IME.

Looking at my book, the wine mead I made before took 3lb honey for a gallon of water but the ale mead is 1lb, being weaker. This one is hopped - I wonder what the combination of the honey and the bitterness of the hops would taste like.

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EBearhug · 07/02/2025 15:11

CaptainMyCaptain · 07/02/2025 12:54

It in The Domestic Revolution by Ruth Goodman which is about how Britain was an early adopter of coal as fuel which affected our cooking methods, house design and more.

Edited

We were an early adapter, but mostly only in the coal fields. There aren't deep mines till later in the 16th century, and they're more bell pits and admits than the mines of the 19th century. Plus it was difficult to transport. I don't know much about when the Kent coalfield was worked, which would have been closest, but still not that accessible for West Sussex.

Plus problems of wood supply are not too much of an issue till into the 16th century. I am happy to be proved wrong, (i will akways read about the history of coal,) but while we were early adopters, I don't think most households would have regularly been using coal until rather later than 1461.

(Having peasantry which can be more mobile, rather than tied to a particular place through serfdom, as in much of Europe, is among the reasons why industrialisation comes first to Britain , so thank you Wat Tyler and Co. But it's still not until later.)

Also, if you were living all year round, you'd harvest anything like soapwort at the right time and save it, so you might have roots stashed. It can get invasive, so digging it up wouldn't necessarily be an issue.

CaptainMyCaptain · 07/02/2025 15:17

EBearhug · 07/02/2025 15:11

We were an early adapter, but mostly only in the coal fields. There aren't deep mines till later in the 16th century, and they're more bell pits and admits than the mines of the 19th century. Plus it was difficult to transport. I don't know much about when the Kent coalfield was worked, which would have been closest, but still not that accessible for West Sussex.

Plus problems of wood supply are not too much of an issue till into the 16th century. I am happy to be proved wrong, (i will akways read about the history of coal,) but while we were early adopters, I don't think most households would have regularly been using coal until rather later than 1461.

(Having peasantry which can be more mobile, rather than tied to a particular place through serfdom, as in much of Europe, is among the reasons why industrialisation comes first to Britain , so thank you Wat Tyler and Co. But it's still not until later.)

Also, if you were living all year round, you'd harvest anything like soapwort at the right time and save it, so you might have roots stashed. It can get invasive, so digging it up wouldn't necessarily be an issue.

It wasn't happening in 1461.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2025 16:47

I don’t think anyone is claiming the shift from wood to coal is happening in 1461. It’s generally associated with the population growth of the second half of the 16th c.

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SerendipityJane · 07/02/2025 17:16

Many years ago, I made a honey ale (no hops). DH drank the last pint about a year after it was made. We didn't have the kit at the time to test it but reckoned it was around 7%.

If you had decent scales and a measuring jug you did 😀

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2025 17:40

SerendipityJane · 07/02/2025 17:16

Many years ago, I made a honey ale (no hops). DH drank the last pint about a year after it was made. We didn't have the kit at the time to test it but reckoned it was around 7%.

If you had decent scales and a measuring jug you did 😀

Would standard household scales be accurate/precise enough to get a meaningful measurement?

OP posts:
GnomeDePlume · 07/02/2025 17:42

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2025 13:59

Looking at my book, the wine mead I made before took 3lb honey for a gallon of water but the ale mead is 1lb, being weaker. This one is hopped - I wonder what the combination of the honey and the bitterness of the hops would taste like.

I would guess that in a lighter brew all the fructose and glucose would brew out. You would be left with the flavour of honey but not the sweetness.

If there is more sugar than the yeast can handle then the yeast gets killed off by the alcohol and less is turned to alcohol leaving a sweeter flavour.

SerendipityJane · 07/02/2025 17:48

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2025 17:40

Would standard household scales be accurate/precise enough to get a meaningful measurement?

Depends on the tolerance ... if it's +/- 5g and you weighted 1000g (around a litre) then you'd get to within 0.5%

You'd be assuming it was a water/alcohol mix, so that may also slightly affect your calculations.

At the end of the day that's all a brewing hydrometer is - the density of the liquid against the calibrated weighted bouncy thing.