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AMA

I am an NHS Psychiatrist AMA

269 replies

ipredictariot5 · 28/01/2024 00:24

There has been so much in the news this week about the mental healthcare of the man who killed the three people in Nottingham. If anyone wants to
ask any questions about this or psychiatry in general fire away

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6
Passthepickle · 28/01/2024 14:41

Thanks for the answer. Reading your replies I think your patients get a good deal.

ipredictariot5 · 28/01/2024 14:57

TheSoundOfMucus · 28/01/2024 13:51

I have had MH issues since I was a young teenager. Initially diagnoses with borderline PD and depression and treated with chlorpromazine with 2 yr hospital stay. 30 years later with regular ‘breakdowns’ diagnoses by Private Psych (couldn’t get seen in NHS) with bipolar and CPTSD. Currently prescribed an SSRI and a mood stabiliser, just been taken off quetiapine. Plus benzos PRN.

Been looking at ADHD as meet the criteria of your checklist- both my children are ND. Met with psych to discuss, tbh I had hoped that eventually I may be able to try ADHD meds and change/stop psych meds. He asked me questions for an hour at the end of which he refuted ADHD but diagnosed me as autistic despite not going through the required questionnaires. I’m in a waiting list to see a post diagnosis nurse.

This all seems wrong but I don’t know how to take it forward. How would you suggest I proceed. I’m almost 50 and I just want to manage my life. Thank you.

I am going to give general advice here as I do not know you so please discuss with
your usual MH care team
Ask for a second
opinion. If you have neurodiverse kids it runs in families and we know BPAD and ADHD often go together.
lots of psychiatrists are nervous about stimulant medication in BPAD worrying it will trigger mania. The current advice it is safe with a mood stabiliser and careful oversight
for autism it is a pretty lengthy diagnostic interview usually
I am sorry to hear of your experiences. In your age group we are certainly reviewing old diagnoses and trauma and neurodiversity often flag up as perhaps the reason for a presentation that seems severe and poorly responsive to medication
we are also seeing more women presenting with obvious ADHD symptoms at menopause - some may be menopause but in some the lack of oestrogen makes the low grade ADHD symptoms seem worse. Don’t miss out on HRT in your 50s
if your GP assesses you as appropriate we know lots of women with MH problems do not get offered it

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HuntingForChicken · 28/01/2024 15:05

I am mid fourties’ and have type 2 bipolar with a 2-3 year loop with roughly 9 months deep depression in each loop. Is your experience is this likely to remain the same as I age?

DarkChocHolic · 28/01/2024 15:07

@ipredictariot5
Thank you for the thread!
My daughter 16 has been struggling with depression and extreme mood swings.
Fluoxetine 20mg did nothing for her and we are 10 weeks in.
Camhs have prescribed aripiprazole as she is seen to have emerging eupd.
She also scores high on adhd pre assessment.
Having read recent bbc, mrha and mind websites about the dangers of aripiprazole (gambling, impulsive spend, binge eating) I am very concerned.
Dd is also overweight with bmi of 29 which has mainly caused her depression in the first instance.
I am terrified of starting thr aripiprazole but equally she is rotting away not attending school and staying in bed all day.
What do I do?
Xx

Trufflenose · 28/01/2024 15:18

Are you aware of the links between eye problems and SSRIs? I have had unexplained swelling on my retinas and am really cautious of taking SSRIs as there is a (small) risk of further eye problems. Both the eye consultant and two GPs that I've seen have denied that there's any link between SSRIs and retina issues but just a quick Google brings up lots of research papers establishing a link.

Just wondering if this is someone widely known about? And whether there is anything else I could take for anxiety that doesn't have possible effects on the eye/retina?

ipredictariot5 · 28/01/2024 15:22

HuntingForChicken · 28/01/2024 15:05

I am mid fourties’ and have type 2 bipolar with a 2-3 year loop with roughly 9 months deep depression in each loop. Is your experience is this likely to remain the same as I age?

It is true people often show similar patterns/ loops in their illness but have all treatment options been explored including third line options? There are tertiary centre mood disorder services if your secondary care service has tried everything
9 months every 2-3 years sounds tough to deal with

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ipredictariot5 · 28/01/2024 15:24

Trufflenose · 28/01/2024 15:18

Are you aware of the links between eye problems and SSRIs? I have had unexplained swelling on my retinas and am really cautious of taking SSRIs as there is a (small) risk of further eye problems. Both the eye consultant and two GPs that I've seen have denied that there's any link between SSRIs and retina issues but just a quick Google brings up lots of research papers establishing a link.

Just wondering if this is someone widely known about? And whether there is anything else I could take for anxiety that doesn't have possible effects on the eye/retina?

No I do not know but if you have done your research and there appears to be a link I would be cautious. Eyes are important
however please do make changes to your medical care without discussing with
your doctors first

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ipredictariot5 · 28/01/2024 15:27

DarkChocHolic · 28/01/2024 15:07

@ipredictariot5
Thank you for the thread!
My daughter 16 has been struggling with depression and extreme mood swings.
Fluoxetine 20mg did nothing for her and we are 10 weeks in.
Camhs have prescribed aripiprazole as she is seen to have emerging eupd.
She also scores high on adhd pre assessment.
Having read recent bbc, mrha and mind websites about the dangers of aripiprazole (gambling, impulsive spend, binge eating) I am very concerned.
Dd is also overweight with bmi of 29 which has mainly caused her depression in the first instance.
I am terrified of starting thr aripiprazole but equally she is rotting away not attending school and staying in bed all day.
What do I do?
Xx

Sorry to hear this
general observations about aripiprazole - often chosen as associated with less / no weight gain
we have recently had advice to watch out for the behaviours you describe but It did not try stop using it just ask patients and consider change if emerge

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HuntingForChicken · 28/01/2024 15:28

Not sure what third line options are? I was put on lots of antidepressants before bipolar was diagnosed as they thought I had a depressive disorder. I have also tried most mood stablisers without success. I am currently only on 200mg quetiapine.

Keepitsimple1 · 28/01/2024 15:30

Have you ever seen a middle aged adult suddenly develop a severe tic disorder with hands and face? No signs in childhood. Aggravated by anxiety, caffeine/alcohol and hunger.

Is it a psychological or neurological issue?

Seasaltsquall · 28/01/2024 15:36

ATerrorofLeftovers · 28/01/2024 00:49

Why are antidepressants that need to be taken daily, have serious side effects and cause dependency so are difficult and unpleasant to stop taking, viewed preferentially to judicious and sparing use of benzodiazepines in specific circumstances that cause anxiety?

As an example, a relative of mine suffers from anxiety, particularly social anxiety, but generally manages well apart from the odd situation, eg family wedding, important work presentation etc. She was previously prescribed Valium to take when needed and has taken it very occasionally - average less than once per month.

At her recent appointment the GP (private, fwiw) tried to cajole her into taking antidepressants instead. My relative doesn’t want to take a medication daily for the odd day she needs extra support and the Valium with propranolol has worked very well for her. As far as she’s concerned, switching to an antidepressants would not be a positive move and I can see her point.

The GP did make out a new prescription but intimated it might be the last, even though she couldn’t provide any explanation as to why antidepressants would be the superior option. This has panicked my relative, who is now much more anxious! Just having the Valium and knowing she can take it if needed really helps and actually means she rarely takes it.

Somebody taking Valium once per month has no chance of getting addicted, so what’s the issue? Why is dependency on a prescription antidepressant with side effects such as metabolic issues preferable to occasional non-dependent use of benzodiazepines? How can it be? And why is the private GP suddenly cutting up rough about prescribing now?

It’s all been very unhelpful and unsettling, so any light you can shed would be gratefully received.

I'd also love to know the answer to this. I am eternally grateful to my GP whom without her support and willingness to allow me to continue to have Diazepam and Zopiclone prescribed to take when needed,meant that my children still have a mum when insomnia nearly drove me to suicide. I have absolutely no problems with addiction and that's after 20 years. I've tried several SSRI's/SNRI's and some are horrendous to bother get on, and come off.

ipredictariot5 · 28/01/2024 15:39

HuntingForChicken · 28/01/2024 15:28

Not sure what third line options are? I was put on lots of antidepressants before bipolar was diagnosed as they thought I had a depressive disorder. I have also tried most mood stablisers without success. I am currently only on 200mg quetiapine.

Ask your psychiatrist - new treatment options for depression emerging all the
time

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ipredictariot5 · 28/01/2024 15:40

I answered this up thread I hope
?

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ipredictariot5 · 28/01/2024 15:41

Keepitsimple1 · 28/01/2024 15:30

Have you ever seen a middle aged adult suddenly develop a severe tic disorder with hands and face? No signs in childhood. Aggravated by anxiety, caffeine/alcohol and hunger.

Is it a psychological or neurological issue?

this person needs to see a neurologist

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SilverSideUp · 28/01/2024 16:20

@ipredictariot5 I agree re IMHA. You would be amazed how often I visit a unit and I really feel that the staff see me as a hindrance.
If we can work together then it ensure patients voices are heard and they can understand their rights better and therefore feel empowered.

I have not seen a psychiatrist for years and I probably need to. It's so bad I've fallen down the stairs and out of bed but I'm so reluctant and anxious about changing something that works well.

StandardLFinegan · 28/01/2024 16:32

ipredictariot5 · 28/01/2024 09:24

This is a big question. There are endless academic studies, views and questions around SSRIs. Probably the best answer I can give you is to tell you how I practice.
academic studies which are useful get distilled into clinical guidelines that are my starting points. SSRIs are incredibly useful drugs and can be life saving. But they do come with side effects that don’t always get discussed enough and we can also not be proactive enough in stopping them.
and they sometimes make people worse especially in bipolar disorder
I tend to think about the patient in front of me, decide what we are treating, what other options are ( talking therapy should be the bedrock of everything either by itself or alongside ) and try to reach a collaborative view with the patient as to what we are going to do
there is also certainly a placebo effect with many many drugs in all areas of practice

Thank you for your answer ipredictariot5, very interesting, and I like your approach.

Beyondbeyondbeyond · 28/01/2024 17:10

and has suddenly remembered that her, and me were abused until our teenage years. Whilst I believed she could have been abused and repressed it, I do not believe I would also would have forgotten something that happened to me and apparently went on till late teens!

Sorry to pick up on someone else’s question but I would like to ask a follow up to it.

I remembered always both myself and my sister being abused as young children/teens. She did not ever remember the abuse until I gave her a very specific description of my actual experience of the abuse as a young child and it triggered a memory for her, then over time she remembered more and more. According to her she then realised she had subsequently abused right into late adulthood by the abuser.

What mechanisms stop a person from remembering abuse they experienced within the last decade. Is there a type of dissociation that can happen? Just the other poster was asking how she might not remember and I presume there is coping mechanism that can cause that.

equinoxprocess · 28/01/2024 17:22

Memory is really complicated - it's not so much a fixed storage process like a computer memory but something that is reconstructed (and potentially changed) each time a memory is visited. Trauma does interfere with memory formation and recollection.

There is research showing that memories can be quite easily changed and manipulated, although the research base is still evolving. I'd be wary of anyone who claimed to have all the answers.

userneedingadvice · 28/01/2024 17:25

Name change for this one

My DH has just been sectioned, under the MHA, following a suicide attempt. He's there for 28 days which I understand to be the maximum. It's been a traumatic experience for us - my DD and I saved his life. We're now very worried about him coming home after that and possibly doing the same thing again.

What happens after the 28 days of being sectioned?

SunshineAutumnday · 28/01/2024 17:27

Firstly, thank you for posting and taking time to answer.

How do you change a teenagers sleep pattern, when they are clincally depressed and are taking anti depressants which have effected their sleep pattern. When exercise and going outside isn't within the reach at present due their depression.

ATerrorofLeftovers · 28/01/2024 17:27

ipredictariot5 · 28/01/2024 15:40

I answered this up thread I hope
?

I really appreciate you taking the time to answer. However, I don’t feel it answers my question because it addressed risk factors across a population, rather than those in individual patients. When a patient presents for help, they want patient-centred care, with their own individual needs and risks to be considered.

So if a patient has managed well on very occasional use of benzos for several years and has demonstrably been able to not escalate intake and keep it way, way lower than would risk addiction, why the eagerness to transfer them to a daily SSRI?

The SSRI will likely bring with it a slew of side effects, including insomnia, low libido, a risk of movement disorders, brain fog, dependency and discontinuation disorder and metabolic effects, to name just a small sample of possible side effects.

If we home in on just the metabolic effects, then the patient can put on a lot of weight, causing low self esteem and quite possibly a consequent worsening of their MH, and, more seriously, metabolic disorder. You will be as aware as I am how serious this can be. Developing type 2 diabetes can result in hugely increased risk of cardiovascular problems for one, there is added cancer risk at higher weights etc.

How can this possibly be better for the patient than one benzo a month?

I cannot see how it can be, but I’d love to hear if you think it is and, if so, why?

Perrie80 · 28/01/2024 17:32

My son age 16 has suffered with OCD since around age 9. He is on Sertraline 100mg and had 6 months of ERP last year. It can be truly debilitating and it breaks my heart.
Do you think there's a chance he can eventually lead a normal life?
Have you seen people with OCD recover well?

MigratedCheese · 28/01/2024 18:07

What can medical schools do to attract better students into psychiatry? For so many new drs it isn’t their first choice, they end up in psychiatry simply because they couldn’t get a job anywhere else. Do you have any ideas about how else to raise the standard of care?

Goatymum · 28/01/2024 18:14

@ipredictariot5 Do you think OCD can be managed without medication and tailored therapy? We are talking rumination ocd (pure), not contamination ocd.

ipredictariot5 · 28/01/2024 18:20

userneedingadvice · 28/01/2024 17:25

Name change for this one

My DH has just been sectioned, under the MHA, following a suicide attempt. He's there for 28 days which I understand to be the maximum. It's been a traumatic experience for us - my DD and I saved his life. We're now very worried about him coming home after that and possibly doing the same thing again.

What happens after the 28 days of being sectioned?

I’m so sorry to hear this. I assume you are his nearest relative?
I am going to suggest you look at Mind website. It’s all set out there better than I explain
i hope your DH gets better very soon x

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