I worked in a prison, AMA!

[Youarestillintherunning]

I worked in a prison for young offenders (16-18) for two years, then moved to a secure training centre for 12-18 year olds, then a secure residential children's home. I now work in a completely different office based job. Ama!

Thank you for doing this topic. It’s really interesting to hear about what really goes on in prison and residential homes.

I've a friend who did a stretch that spanned accross Young Offenders and then adult prison. He said that while the violence, when it happened, in the adult prisons was more extreme, lower level violence (without weapons, just a kicking etc) was far more frequent in Young Offenders. He says Young Offenders was far more dangerous on the whole than adult prison (2 years in each), is this still the case? (His experience was quite a while ago.)

Friend became addicted to heroin (previously not a user) in the Young Offenders. Are class As still smuggled in regularly (as they are in the adult estate), or have children been prevented from exposure to heroin during detention yet?

@imip in my experience, most of the young people in the prison had an education level that was closer to an 8-10 year old. A shocking amount of them were unable to read. And unfortunately, I guess due to lack of resources, time and funding, learning disabilities wasn't something that looked into much. So many people view them as just "naughty" for want of a better word, and aren't interested in looking into why. I honestly believe that bad behaviour is almost always a symptom of underlying issues, whether that be mental, emotional or a form of abuse. So I think that it is definitely something that is overlooked. As long as the young people attended education (literally, going along and staying in the classroom for the hour) then no one really asked questions

@Herja, I wouldn't know about the differing levels of violence in young offenders and adult, as I never worked in adult. But yes there was a lot of violence. Often with homemade weapons like plugs in socks. There was a few occasions where the kids were violent to staff, but almost always it was between the young people and related to gang issues. I never personally came across heroin while I was working there, it was almost always cannabis or spices.

@Herja I also think that the violence in young offenders institutions is sometimes for "show" if that makes sense? They would wait until there are staff around, then it would kick off and it would be a lot of flapping arms and legs and shouting. To show the other young people that they wouldn't be 'disrespected' but they had the safety of knowing that the fight would be split up in less that half a minute. There were probably 2 or 3 incidents a day. And maybe 2 a week that involved weapons?

Thank you OP.

Sounds like it's certainly improved over the years then if it's shifted to broadly posturing rather than broken bones. Good to know.

While the drugs situation is not ideal, I'm glad to hear it's not so much smack now. I've known too many people become accidentally addicted to it after exposure in their teens, most dead by their 30s. Good that there's less of that now too.

@Herja I just remembered something else about the young people "kicking off," for some of them it was about comfort. By kicking off and starting a fight, they knew they would be restrained. Lots of them had come from families where there wasn't much physical touch in a positive way. And physical touch wasn't something that they can get in prison. Being restrained, would mean that for a minute or two they would be held. I can think of a few boys that this was the case for. Really sad. But also explains the high nunber of 'incidents.' Ideally no drugs would get in, but it is a small relief that it is lower level drugs now rather than the hard stuff! I'm not sure if this is the case in adult estates though, my understanding is that they have much harder drugs

I'm really glad you've started this thread, OP. I'm a Primary headteacher and a few of my pupils (mostly former, but sadly a couple of current) are slipping into lives of crime and it's devastating to watch. They are genuinely nice boys at heart who are let down at every bloody opportunity.

@GnomeOrMistAndIceGuy it's devastating, isn't it? Because of their size, attitude and the environment that theyre in, they come across as much older than what they are. There were moments in the prison where the boys were just playing around together, and it used to really take me aback and remind me that they are children. When you meet their families, sadly you can understand immediately how they have ended up there. Learning their life story, you are right that they have often been let down over and over again by people who were supposed to protect them. The loss of their childhood is the saddest thing. So many of them wanted a better life for themselves, but don't see a way to achieve that, or have the appropriate support to.

There's a boy local to me who has been sent to one of these facilities. He's 15. He was excluded from school for repeated acts of theft and violence and when out of school he stole a vehicle and tried to flee with a packed bag and some money. He was obviously trying to run away, but he knocked over someone with the vehicle and they had to have minor hospital treatment. He was sentenced and that's where he is now. The local Facebook page was awash with cries of "feral bastard!" And "wants the shit kicking out of him for a change!!"

It wouldn't have been a change. That lad was having the shit kicked out of him by his dad, big brother and his mum since he was about two. He was often sporting a black eye, a cut lip, ripped clothes etc. Some of his background is horrific- I'd defy anyone to read his case file and not want to reach in, pluck that little boy out and show him some love. Keep him safe! He was physically and mentally abused viciously his whole life, even starved as a punishment from as young as six months. He was honestly the sweetest boy if you spoke to him one on one and so, SO desperate to please and to be liked and given some positive feedback. His parents were the ones who needed locking up. He needed love and care, but SS just kept monitoring the situation. He'll likely end up in prison because nobody will ever give that boy a chance. I can imagine that the facilities you worked in are full of children like him and my heart hurts for them. Do you know of any positive stories at all of kids who left and made a good life for themselves?

Based on your reply to me, OP, and @Fuckingfabulous heartbreaking story there, do you have any thoughts on how the Youth Justice system could be reformed? I refuse to believe these children/young adults are beyond redemption but far too many seem to continue down the path to more serious crime. For me, personally, I would like to see young offenders given mandatory training in a trade or profession as part of their rehabilitation. Find what they're genuinely good at and interested in and give them something to work towards and be proud of. I know it's not that simple.

Oh I've no doubt it's still the hard stuff in the adult estate. I doubt that will ever change. From what I've heard from recent leavers, the gang lines are firmer in prison than anywhere else. I am relieved that the kids in Young Offenders get a bit of a chance though now.

That's very interesting about the human contact! I was the same as a child, but would smack my own head off the wall for a hug from the school receptionist. That makes complete sense to me, bloody sad situation for them though, poor buggers.

Even if you put any moral responsibility or ethics aside, on a cost basis alone it is sensible to intervene when young rather than pay the cost of prison, benefits, Heath/psych support etc etc that is involved when we failed children. And what’s more, they go on to have families similar to those they grew up in, it institutionalise poverty - so very sad to see.

FuckingFabulous I wholeheartedly agree with you. That is the case for most of these young people, I have never understood how people can think that violence will do anything other than damage them more. Some of them have done some awful things, and I wouldn't excuse their behaviour or say that their childhood makes it okay. But what most of them need for rehabilitation is positive, trusting and loving relationships with an adult, for someone to take an actual interest in them and show them that they are more than their criminal record.

Unfortunately, positive outcomes are rare, but I know of 3 off the top of my head. One yp had been in and out of prisons since he was 13. The longest he had spent on the street at that time was 3 months. During that time, his family had never visited him in prison. When I met him, he told me that he was done with this. He was 17, and he never wanted to go to the adult estate. He worked really hard to get qualifications over his sentence and agreed to work with a mentor, the psych services and was released a year later. He contacted me 2 or 3 years after he was released to say thank you for everything, and that he had a legitimate job and was earning legal money for the first time in his life. 2nd case is a young man who was heavily involved in gangs as a child, and managed to work his way quite high up the gang hierarchy! He ended up making his own organisation which specialises in working with young people involved in gangs to identify the skills that they learnt on the streets and transferring them them legitimate occupations. 3rd case is a boy (now man) who actually lives around the corner from me! I see him every now and again, and he always tells me proudly that he's kept out of trouble, and what's going on in his life after finding out while in prison that his girlfriend was pregnant and deciding that he would change his life for the baby.

@GnomeOrMistAndIceGuy as I said further up the thread, I'm not sure what could be done. But for a start, more funding, more staff that are actually trained in working with vulnerable young people, and support for when they are released. Completely agree that more should be done to make their time inside restorative and rehabilitative, and helping them to get an education and/or skills for employment

@Herja I'm so sorry that you were in a situation where you had to do that for physical touch too. I believe that safe, physical touch is essential for children (and adults actually!) I hope that you are in a place now where you have found some peace and happiness?

@imip I couldn't agree with you more. The issue, is is people seem to have such an emotional and visceral reaction to crimes, I think they would rather keep them locked away so they don't have to be seen or thought about. But it doesn't solve anything! You are right, it just passes onto the next generation

What’s your take on Rainsbrook closing? Was it really that bad?

@Sunshinedaisymeadowsxx it doesn't surprise me. The issue with private companies, is that their priority and interest is financial gain. They are fined whenever there is an incident, so there is a lot of underreporting and solitary confinement used to control the kids to avoid financial penalties. It also means that there is a lack of transparency in what they do and where their money is going. Working for the MOJ pre-pandemic, the kids were often in their cells for up to 18 hours out of 24. The ones in solitary confinement were allowed out for an hour a day. So I can fully believe that during the pandemic it was much worse than that!

All fine now thanks Youarestill, I have a family of my own who are hugged at least 10 times a day. The kids have even broken my grandparents who hug them back while looking puzzled . GPs brought me up as my mum was a waster and they had been raised in more austere times without much physical contact themselves.

I completely agree that physical contact is so necessary.

It is lovely to hear your success stories! I live in an area with many young people like this. The downward spiral is often so predictable and yet seemingly unstoppable. While my mum was in charge, I was taught to be instensly suspicious of all authority figures and trust none of them. It has taken an entire lifetime to slowly trust medical professionals, schools, police etc (and still not entirely in all honesty), so it's good to hear things from people like you who very obviously do care!

@Herja ohhh yes, definitely had problems with young people trusting me as an authority figure so i get what you mean. I always explained to them that while I worked for the prison, I was hired by an independent company and that my job was to advocate for THEM, not the prison, and this seemed to help a little.

I'm sorry that your mum couldn't give you what you needed, but I'm so pleased for you that you have your own family now, and get all of the cuddles that you all need! ❤ it's great that you have broken the cycle. As I said earlier in the thread, I had to leave because emotionally it was too much for me and then I found out that was pregnant with my daughter. But I'm not done. I hope that in the future, when I am strong enough, I can get involved in the policy side of things and with any luck maybe one day make a difference to support young people before they get to a point of needing to be in a secure establishment

I really hope you do youarestillintherunning you are clearly compassionate, committed and have a huge amount of insight into young peoples behaviours, it sounds like you could really positively influence their outcomes.

@Arriettyborrower, thank you that's very kind of you to say. It's not all bad, I met some great people along the way who really do have the young people's best interests at heart, and I'm sure that they would want to get involved!

@Youarestillintherunning, your posts are amazing. I was wondering, are there any kind of voluntary roles available working with young people in these situations. Did you ever come across volunteers, and if so do you know how they got involved? It's something I would really love to do one day...

@AbiJo, there are tons of voluntary opportunities! That's actually how I originally got into it, I volunteered for my local youth offending team, and through them made contacts within the prison. You could also try Barnardos (they work in the secure estates as advocates for young people, helping them with any concerns or issues that they might have but feel unable to address alone) or Icon (a mentoring service that visit YPs in the institution to build a relationship, then continue to support them upon release). There is also Trailblazer who work with older ex-offenders (18-25 I think)? Or by directly emailing residential homes local to you. Its hard work, and can be very demanding and upsetting at times. But it is by far the most rewarding job I have ever done too. I have many fond memories 😊