I am an Elective Home Education Officer AMA

[EHEAMA]

I will try and answer your questions.

You have skipped my questions earlier.

But how many children have you home educated?
I don't think anyone is able to advise when they have no idea what it's like.
Of course help should be available but I doubt you could have helped us or anyone else struggling.
You might have a suggestion but so would the population in general.
But maybe I'm sad for not seeing the worth of your job.
Mine is at school now as the school allow free choice of GCSE not options from blocks. Our new LA EHE worker is a home educator herself and I can see the point in this appointment for the role.
Who better to advise than someone who actually knows what they are doing.

@EHEAMA

@Drabarni I agree. My only wish is that these questions would be answered by LA officials who are of a differing opinion to OP, in terms of what they're actually qualified for as non-HE parents and the willingness to learn from those actually experiencing HE like OP here shows; those who believe they get to determine and decide what constitutes "education" in any other form other than NC (which is their only field of training) when they don't understand or even want to do so how diverse HE is. I wish these were the people answering today.

OP is a different (rare and really lovely) type of LA official and already seems to understand this for the most part.

@EHEAMA

You replied to fatjesus earlier
''I think they ought to be employing teachers. Not so they can check on the provision but I think teachers are better placed to advise parents about real teaching and learning- the process, the approaches, tried and tested tips etc''

Why do you think teachers are better placed to advise - given the diverse nature of home ed. Do you explain learning theory in depth to parents then? The 'process' of learning is going to be very unique to each individual child.

What is 'real' teaching? Could you elaborate please?
Many home educators consider themselves facilitators not teachers (albeit a parent is the childs first and most enduring teacher).

What you say suggests then that there is a prescribed model or train of thought to what the LA (you) are expecting of teaching and learning, which leads me back to my other questions - given that you have a teaching background do you base your assessment of HE using NC and your teaching and learning experience?

I have a degree, I have an extensive background in early years but have worked with children of all ages, abilities and needs and whilst that background helped me in my approach to HE and has certainly informed and shaped our road from MY perspective, it isn't necessary to have.

Ah! I wrote too soon then. I missed the answer above and haven't read all of it. OP isn't as rare as I had thought.

@EHEAMA

you also state elsewhere in your replies that social media has contributed to the negative stories and believe that some groups actively discourage/delete positive interactions with their LA's - this isn't true.
There are specific groups that deal with people having problems with their LA
It IS generally advised but not demanded that people do not meet with their LA's - due to many unreasonable and overstepping LA's, your colleagues in different counties are who have made your job more difficult and built up that feeling of distrust and dislike (my current LA is one of them - horribly pushy and aggressive from the outset and not supportive one iota - my LA even gives me the chills and I am able to stand up for myself).

I have questions, so, so many questions, manly due to DD (15 - been a school refuser since year 7 and progressively getting worse) telling me this morning she won't be returning to school. I have a thread in education about her issues (depression, self-harm, anxiety, suicidal ideation - in part triggered by school)

What is the difference between off-rolling and EHE?
How much approx is it to sit 5-6 GCSE's privately (I'm also in the North, if it makes a difference) and is there ever a chance of the child's current school allowing them to sit their exams there for free?
Wrt to social isolation - is this ever an issue? Like many of your parents it is a concern of mine. There is no way in Hell I would get her to EHE group.
What happens if the parents refuse visits? DD hates the idea of strangers visiting the house but I would be willing to meet without her there/show her work etc.
In your experience is it possible to successfully homeschool as a single parent working full time? - Successfully as in the child passing their exams and going on to college or an apprenticeship.
Do children (or parents) ever regret the decision to homeschool?

Watching this thread with interest as looking at applying for a job as HE coordinator myself.

Good morning.

I am struggling to keep up with my responses but will keep going.

@Minky3 I am answering questions in the order they were posted with the odd exception. I will get to you

I have to point out that my answers relate to one LA and no 2 LAs are the same.

Great work op, thanks for replying and thanks for posting

@Fatjesus
As a qualified, experienced teacher, you will be familiar with "middle class bias" which is apparent in most schools.

Middle class bias has a detrimental impact on children's learning in schools.

Do you agree that middle class bias will heavily affect affect home education in a far more negative way And that if you give teachers with years of institutionalised experice the power to send lower class children back to school on the basis that their patents aren't middle class enough to "teach" then that exactly who they will send back to school?

Having experience in primary school myself (I currently job share As a primary teacher), I find that teachers (particularly, older more experienced teachers) take (sometimes quite extreme offence) at the idea that "unqualified" parents think they can "teach" their own children. It's received as a personal affront.
In that case, should every L.A. have an experienced home educator on the EHE team and available for consult on home education phosophies that you may not understand but are relevant in childrens learning?

• Middle class bias is presuming the EHE team are middle class. Neither me nor my colleague see ourselves as MC. We were both brought up in WC families and are still part of a WC community. Our families come from a variety of backgrounds and I hope we traet them all the same.

-In our LA we (EHE) don’t have the power to send children back to school, nor would we want that. If necessary we -We do speak to headteachers who are upset that families choose to home educate, they feel guilty that they have let the children down. his happens even when parents tell them that

• I don’t see how having an experienced H Edder on the EHE team would change this.

@Ketomeato
Sorry, apologies OP.
-lol

What do you do with the kids who have been off-rolled/have no appropriate placement?
Off-rolling rarely happens now, but most who were off-rolled returned to school through parental choice.
We have no involvement with those without an appropriate placement. We are a separate department and sit independently away from the Attendance team, Admissions team and CME.

Do you ever recommend HE families to apply for EHCP so they can get their needs properly assessed?
-No, we feel strongly that EHE should not be recommend nor should families be persuaded not to opt to EHE. We work hard to ensure families make an informed choice.

@Rotolla
It’s refreshing you have an education background.
-Most of our families appreciate this. Prior to our appointment senior managers met with parents who were concerned that the retiring EHE manager would be replaced with someone less suitable. Mangers listened to the parents and appointed 2 teachers.

I communicate with someone in an admin role paid a very low wage using a checklist, it’s a bit painful. Very inconsistent, full of misspellings and the leaflets etc they send are inaccurate. Completely misquote law, and don’t even make actual sense if you read them.
- it’s hard for us to grasp that this still happens!

@lovelyjubilly
How did you make the move to this from teaching?

I worked for a support service (not EHE) who went through a restructure. I survived but was given a very different role – EHE

@pickles26

what training do you get for this job?
I am curious as to how LAs train their staff to understand the diversity of HE - the unschoolers through to the structured.
-I didn’t get any training. As I’ve said I read and read; it was a steep learning curve! My colleague was the same but I was already in post so could help. We now train/enlighten other professionals.

Are you assessing HE provision based on your teacher training, school experience and the NC?
-No, we really don’t assess the provision. My NC knowledge is very limited and out of date.
If it isn't then how do you deem that a provision is suitable?
-We talk to parents who actually make this decision themselves, they are astute, and usually know when they aren’t meeting their child’s needs. In our experience families who do all sorts of things and provide a fantastic education are the ones who worry the most about whether they are ‘doing enough’.

What happens if you disagree with your LA's approach to HE?
We are the EHE lead and senior managers trust us to take the lead. Our LA’s approach to HE comes from us, which in turn comes from the parents we work with.
I’m beginning to think we are very lucky – both with our senior managers and our familes.

@Minky3
Why do you think some HE’ers are so hostile to LA involvement? Could it be bad personal past experience? I really don’t know.

Are you sympathetic to their reasoning? If not; why?
We understand their concerns but hope we quickly reassure them.

Why do you think so many LAs are keen to increase state monitoring and operational control of HE children but not keen to take any legal responsibility for the quality of the education nor increase LA support for HE children?
I honestly don’t know the real reasons. I think panic about safeguarding could be a major factor. Our LA would welcome financial support for HE families. We already offer some but not enough.

@Aveisenim
is there any particular reason you don't support unschooling/autonomous education? How do you find your interactions with families who follow this approach?

We are a small LA and it isn’t something we’ve come across a lot.

@Saracen
Which books, websites, blogs etc have you found most helpful in understanding how home education works and how it differs from school education?
-It was a long time ago that I was really reading around the subject. I used to refer to Ed Yourself and Education Otherwise but I have to admit I don’t look very often now. I used to follow a handful of blogs but can’t remember what they were.

We would love to look at current blogs or sites that you would recommend.

@imip
I’ve advocated for some off-rolled kids in our LA. Kids with SEN, no EHCP. I do find this practice rife. On a couple of occasions I’ve secured home tuition before a school move to SS and another a long running court case. I sign post to SOSSEN and IPSEA. LA doesn’t care until JR is threatened. If this is just from people approaching me because they know I understand the law well, then I imagine the real problem is much wider. In both instances the LA wasn’t involved in terms of home education. I suspect the level of undiagnosed SEND in HE is much higher, and the child is probably difficult to engage in HE. Would you routinely suggest a visit to cahms for assessment if it appears an unwilling choice or because you feel need wasn’t met in school?

-Not routinely, but we can refer to CAMHS and can fund Ed Pych assessments if they haven’t been done in school.

@pickles26
@EHEAMA
Thank you for responding

I presume that is your LA only that you are talking about (as I have found various LA's do not require a teaching background, when I asked the lady who was trying to force her way into my home - I discovered she had no qualifications at all - bar her job title). Was it a requirement of the job to have a teaching background?
-Yes, Prior to our appointment senior managers met with parents who were concerned that the retiring EHE manager would be replaced with someone less suitable. Mangers listened and only sort teachers with QTS.
It's great that you have learned a lot from parents and the diversity of HE and have devised your policies in line with this. Does your LA have a good rapport with HE parents - regular meetings so that families can work with you?
-Yes, I feel we do, it is a pleaure to work with our families and this thread has made me realise how lucky we are. We appreciate them and ope they feel likewise.

Given your teaching background - is this what you use to 'assess' provision - your knowledge of NC? How do you assess the provision as suitable for those who do not use NC within their HE or are unschoolers for example?
-see above, most families we see don’t use NC

Do you insist on (seeing) work samples in order to assess provision or are you able to determine from an education report or a visit?
-Not at all but some children love to show us their work; a report or visit/meeting is ample.

Is your LA's paperwork/website fully informative to parents in so much that it makes it clear that visits and work samples aren't required by law etc?
-Kind of… the website has our EHE policy on there and that makes it clear.

Does your LA actually offer support to HE'rs - some LA's offer exam support for example (no strings attached).
-yes, but there are some strings attached- we will only pay for English and/or Maths GGSE

Sorry a million questions
I went from a 'good' LA and fantastic EHE lady (supportive, non intrusive, honest, competent) to a LA who are aggressive, manipulative, hostile - so it was a bit of a shock!

@AthollPlace Tue 15-Oct-19 10:12:23
We go in and talk about the possibilities, what's on offer, give reassurance and encouragement
This is so wonderful. When I refused school due to bullying they came out and told my parents I could either return to school or be locked up in a secure unit, medicated and schooled there. Needless to say I was sent back to school to have the shit beaten out of me every day for another four years.

How do parents afford to home school though? Don’t they have to work?
-I really don’t know but some parents make a big sacrifice to do so.

@HEMammajamma
Loving your questions. Following this with keen interest. OP does seem like one of the famous "lovely LA ladies" but it isn't always so everywhere. Still it's rather nice to have this opportunity to ask questions.- thanks

I don't know how to quote but your answer to my first question on how teachers are best placed to monitor home education "because they know what proper teaching Is", quite neatly also answers my second question about middle class bias and thinking "unqualified" parents shouldn't really be teaching their own.

Middle class bias assumes that teachers with degrees are middle class, regardless of where they rose from and has shown that teachers display a bias towards middle class parents and children
I have un nervingly, seen this myself an heard some absolutely horrific things being said in staffrooms and meetings about working class parents and their children by teachers and even TAs.

Back to my first point though. I must have completed my degree far more recently than you because on ours we were taught the value of many different forms of learning with the emphasis on child led learning and how teaching gets in the way of learning. How all children learn at different paces and in different ways and how the entire system doesn't fit modern children. Most of what was "tried and tested" has failed, been debunked or proven that it just doesn't suit enough of the children in the system to justify staying the same ...we are taught that on the degree.

Having home educators/ previous home educators with experience and knowledge of various philosophies and learning in a 121 home environment would definitely be an advantage. They would be able to consult on the value of child led learning at home to people who don't value it at all because of their strongly held beliefs on structured academic "teaching".
When schools experience a child with a "behavioural disorder" or that simply cannot keep up with tha NC (eventually very quickly diagnosed as a behavioural disorder) that child is (for all intents and purposes) usually "unschooled" or "flexi-schooled" on school premises. We find the things they CAN do, we find the things that they enjoy and we work around that. We know they can't sit down in the hall for a 45 min assembly, so they dont have to. We know they can't sit for half an hour at carpet time so we let them wander the class fiddling with play dough and we don't tell them off for kneeling, rocking, humming, reading the barrage of information that we put in the walls for them two read!! -whilst we are talking.
Some days they do nothing remotely like the rest of the class because they are off photocopying and cutting out laminated themes or threading beads with their favourite TA. Older kids, we might have assisting with younger classes.
We reduce the days they attend or the hours they attend and they come and learn when they feel they can.

So how can you not value unschooling? We do it in schools.

I respect that you are just here as a person answering questions as best you can but really it's all just bluff and bluster. You can't speak for all LAs who have proven to be hostile and you've really proven my point that despite "being the nice LA" there is a bias. You yourself believe that only teachers know how to teach. ...and from there on you have lost me.

I'm a mother of 3 with a teaching degree. I unschool 2 of them. The other has a more structured academic routine but does not follow a NC because our work isn't done on a "subject" basis.
My degree turned out to be as much use as a chocolate teaspoon. If I did not have the experience I have as a home educator, I wouldn't know that and I might advise poorly when applying my capacity as a teacher to guiding home educating families.
Thanks for your time though.

@Fatjesus Wow! A huge portion of what you wrote is the answer to something I have needed for a while now. You have no idea! I agree 100%

@Fatjesus

a round of applause

Loving fatjesus.

@LougleTue 15-Oct-19 23:17:21
Do any of your EHE students use online schooling like Interhigh? What is your view of it? Would you still consider a child to be EHE if they were attending online school with a full curriculum?

We have only known one family to use it. They were established H Edders before they started IH and were keen to stay in contact. I haven’t thought about whether they needed to be EHE.
I haven’t looked at IH so can’t pass comment but the family were very happy with it.

@Minky3Tue 15-Oct-19 23:20:28
You have skipped my questions earlier.
-Ithink I’ve answered them now.

@Drabarni

But how many children have you home educated?
None
I don't think anyone is able to advise when they have no idea what it's like.
Of course help should be available but I doubt you could have helped us or anyone else struggling.
-Perhaps it depends what they are struggling with.
You might have a suggestion but so would the population in general.
-True
But maybe I'm sad for not seeing the worth of your job.
Mine is at school now as the school allow free choice of GCSE not options from blocks. Our new LA EHE worker is a home educator herself and I can see the point in this appointment for the role.
Who better to advise than someone who actually knows what they are doing.

@HEMammajamma
My only wish is that these questions would be answered by LA officials who are of a differing opinion to OP, in terms of what they're actually qualified for as non-HE parents and the willingness to learn from those actually experiencing HE like OP here shows; those who believe they get to determine and decide what constitutes "education" in any other form other than NC (which is their only field of training) when they don't understand or even want to do so how diverse HE is. I wish these were the people answering today.

OP is a different (rare and really lovely) type of LA official and already seems to understand this for the most part.
-Sorry I can only answer from my pov. We try hard to understand diversity within HE.

pickles26Wed 16-Oct-19 00:01:44
@EHEAMA

You replied to fatjesus earlier
''I think they ought to be employing teachers. Not so they can check on the provision but I think teachers are better placed to advise parents about real teaching and learning- the process, the approaches, tried and tested tips etc''

Why do you think teachers are better placed to advise - given the diverse nature of home ed. Do you explain learning theory in depth to parents then? The 'process' of learning is going to be very unique to each individual child.

What is 'real' teaching? Could you elaborate please?
Many home educators consider themselves facilitators not teachers (albeit a parent is the childs first and most enduring teacher).
-Real wasn’t my best choice of word! . ‘Specific’ teaching of a particular skill/method/concept may be better

What you say suggests then that there is a prescribed model or train of thought to what the LA (you) are expecting of teaching and learning, which leads me back to my other questions - given that you have a teaching background do you base your assessment of HE using NC and your teaching and learning experience?
-We recognize that there’s not one preferred method and as I have said NC isn’t a consideration when meeting with families.

I have a degree, I have an extensive background in early years but have worked with children of all ages, abilities and needs and whilst that background helped me in my approach to HE and has certainly informed and shaped our road from MY perspective, it isn't necessary to have.
-You may be right, but it’s difficult to know.

@pickles26Wed 16-Oct-19 00:07:51
@EHEAMA

you also state elsewhere in your replies that social media has contributed to the negative stories and believe that some groups actively discourage/delete positive interactions with their LA's - this isn't true.
There are specific groups that deal with people having problems with their LA
It IS generally advised but not demanded that people do not meet with their LA's - due to many unreasonable and overstepping LA's, your colleagues in different counties are who have made your job more difficult and built up that feeling of distrust and dislike (my current LA is one of them - horribly pushy and aggressive from the outset and not supportive one iota - my LA even gives me the chills and I am able to stand up for myself).
-I can only comment on my experience.

@FrequencyWed 16-Oct-19 00:35:54
I have questions, so, so many questions, manly due to DD (15 - been a school refuser since year 7 and progressively getting worse) telling me this morning she won't be returning to school. I have a thread in education about her issues (depression, self-harm, anxiety, suicidal ideation - in part triggered by school)

What is the difference between off-rolling and EHE?
-IMO off –rollingis where a school encourages, recommends or pushes a family to ‘opt’ to HE. EHE is where a family make an informed choice to HE

How much approx is it to sit 5-6 GCSE's privately (I'm also in the North, if it makes a difference) and is there ever a chance of the child's current school allowing them to sit their exams there for free?
-Here they are about £150-£180 per subject. There is a small chance school may allow them to sit them there. But I wouldn’t think it would be free.

Wrt to social isolation - is this ever an issue? Like many of your parents it is a concern of mine. There is no way in Hell I would get her to EHE group.
-there are many other opportunities for socialization, it doesn’t have to be during the day, nor with her own age group, - e.g. Litter picks, book clubs, Guides
What happens if the parents refuse visits? DD hates the idea of strangers visiting the house but I would be willing to meet without her there/show her work etc.
-This wouldn’t be a problem for us. Many parents come to us, others we meet in a coffee shop. We are open to suggestions

In your experience is it possible to successfully homeschool as a single parent working full time? - Successfully as in the child passing their exams and going on to college or an apprenticeship.
-It depends on the child, but it is a possability
Do children (or parents) ever regret the decision to homeschool?
-Sometimes yes, but not very often

@FireextinguishedWed 16-Oct-19 06:45:24
Watching this thread with interest as looking at applying for a job as HE coordinator myself.

@itsboiledeggsagain

Great work op, thanks for replying and thanks for posting
-Thank you, I’m glad not everyone thinks it is bluff and bluster

@Fatjesus
I don't know how to quote but your answer to my first question on how teachers are best placed to monitor home education "because they know what proper teaching Is", quite neatly also answers my second question about middle class bias and thinking "unqualified" parents shouldn't really be teaching their own.

Middle class bias assumes that teachers with degrees are middle class, regardless of where they rose from and has shown that teachers display a bias towards middle class parents and children
I have un nervingly, seen this myself an heard some absolutely horrific things being said in staffrooms and meetings about working class parents and their children by teachers and even TAs.

Back to my first point though. I must have completed my degree far more recently than you because on ours we were taught the value of many different forms of learning with the emphasis on child led learning and how teaching gets in the way of learning. How all children learn at different paces and in different ways and how the entire system doesn't fit modern children. Most of what was "tried and tested" has failed, been debunked or proven that it just doesn't suit enough of the children in the system to justify staying the same ...we are taught that on the degree.

Having home educators/ previous home educators with experience and knowledge of various philosophies and learning in a 121 home environment would definitely be an advantage. They would be able to consult on the value of child led learning at home to people who don't value it at all because of their strongly held beliefs on structured academic "teaching".
When schools experience a child with a "behavioural disorder" or that simply cannot keep up with tha NC (eventually very quickly diagnosed as a behavioural disorder) that child is (for all intents and purposes) usually "unschooled" or "flexi-schooled" on school premises. We find the things they CAN do, we find the things that they enjoy and we work around that. We know they can't sit down in the hall for a 45 min assembly, so they dont have to. We know they can't sit for half an hour at carpet time so we let them wander the class fiddling with play dough and we don't tell them off for kneeling, rocking, humming, reading the barrage of information that we put in the walls for them two read!! -whilst we are talking.
Some days they do nothing remotely like the rest of the class because they are off photocopying and cutting out laminated themes or threading beads with their favourite TA. Older kids, we might have assisting with younger classes.
We reduce the days they attend or the hours they attend and they come and learn when they feel they can.

So how can you not value unschooling? We do it in schools.

I respect that you are just here as a person answering questions as best you can but really it's all just bluff and bluster. You can't speak for all LAs who have proven to be hostile and you've really proven my point that despite "being the nice LA" there is a bias. You yourself believe that only teachers know how to teach. ...and from there on you have lost me.

I'm a mother of 3 with a teaching degree. I unschool 2 of them. The other has a more structured academic routine but does not follow a NC because our work isn't done on a "subject" basis.
My degree turned out to be as much use as a chocolate teaspoon. If I did not have the experience I have as a home educator, I wouldn't know that and I might advise poorly when applying my capacity as a teacher to guiding home educating families.
Thanks for your time though.

-At no point in this thread did I say “because they know what proper teaching is”
-I still disagree – I am not MC. But whatever I am has caused no issue in my relationship with the families I work with.
-You are right about unschooling; it has many advantages. But there are many approaches to HE and I see the benefits of some more than others. But as I said originally, I support a parent’s decision, it’s not my place to criticise.
-I didn’t say I spoke for all LAs. I did say that I can only comment about our LA
-Again I didn’t say that only teachers know how to teach.
You are putting words into my mouth.

You and your children are lucky in that you are confident in what you are doing.
Unfortunately not all parents are. Many want our support, they ask for our advice, they request visits/meetings and we help as much as we can.

*"real" teaching. I apologise.
As I said I didn't know how to directly quote and 'real and 'proper' are synonyms so I didn't entirely missquote you.

You have shown bias though, even in your limited responses.
It's worrying that you firmly believe institutionalised teachers are best placed to assist home educating families but that home educators have no place assisting home educating families or consulting the home education department.

And you're the "nice LA" so imagine what someone with your experience and qualifications with a more judgemental attitude and a need to control, who is less willing to reluctantly accept other approaches in learning could do to home educating families.
All hell will reign down on any working class family and those not "working towards" a NC. They will be manipulated into following a one size fits all learning style within their homes or forced back into school.
Im concerned that with new guidelines come new targets. "Get x amount back into schools" - if they dont already and do you think well-to-do, middle class families are going to be forced back into schools over working class families? They're not.
Get the rabble back in first. That will be the aim.

Why do the government employ EHE officers to support H.ed parents, to check up on them and then close the door when it comes to actually providing resources and exam fees. Surely, your salary and others like yours would be better spent on resources and real support, for H.ed families.

@Fatjesus

I think we will just have to agree to disagree.
I offered to answer questions and I hope my answers have been helpful or interesting to some people.

I think you are worrying about something that has never been mentioned in consultations -- targets to return children to school. I can't see this happening.

@Drabarni
Why do the government employ EHE officers to support H.ed parents, to check up on them and then close the door when it comes to actually providing resources and exam fees. Surely, your salary and others like yours would be better spent on resources and real support, for H.ed families.

Not all LAs close the door to financial support. I agree with you - financial support should be the norm not the exception.