I'm a Teacher in a Pupil Referral Unit. Ama

[teachandsleep]

Ask me anything. Work with Secondary age children

👏👏👏 to BothALarkAndAnOwl

Our experiences are very , very similar . I had to give up work (as a teacher) as my child's needs became so pressing (school refusal , exclusions , calls from school telling me I had to come and get him , constant appointments) that working full time became impossible . My partner earns enough to support us but had to start working away in order to do this .
My own mental health and my marriage have both come under severe pressure due to the constant fight to get my son the right support . Parenting courses , Social Services intervention (when my son had a violent meltdown in public and somebody reported it to SS) , panel meetings , suicide attempts , EHCP applications , rejections and appeals - eventually successful ! All of that just for DLA ? Pathetic 😡
My son now gets 20 hours a week one to one support in a mainstream school with a supportive and understanding SEN department and is doing well . So guess what ? The Local Authority are now suggesting that as he is doing so well then perhaps he doesn't need the EHCP and the support anymore . So another battle is looming ....

There were three "naughty boys" in my son's primary class, my son diagnosed with autism at 2 and a half and two others. At eleven ds went to an ASD provision the other two "naughty boys" went to the local high school. Both were permanently excluded one in year seven the other in year eight and ended up in PRUs, both got ASD diagnoses around age 14. One had got into drugs and youth offending by then and fell off my radar (although read he was on Jeremy Kyle) the other went to a different ASD provision in year ten and I heard he'd joined the police. None of the boys were naughty as such just ASD without proper understanding and support. Ds was luckier in so far as his diagnosis brought him better provision earlier.

How much actual teaching goes on? Because when I’ve had kids in my class who have ultimately ended up in alternative provision, I’ve not only taught them very little, but it has also significantly affected the learning of the rest of the class. I struggle to imagine a scenario where a group of similar pupils are sat in the same room engaged with what the teacher is saying.

Fleshmarket, that difference in outcomes is enough to make you weep.

Yes I know it's horrendous. I still wonder about the other two boys they had such a difficult time in Primary as they had none of the support ds had and were treated incredibly harshly for things they probably had no idea how to manage differently. We were the outcasts in the playground so used to chat with their mums who were at their wits' end most of the time. They were bright boys, so much potential lost.

@AnotherAverageMum1998
There's a conception date calculator here
www.free-online-calculator-use.com/reverse-due-date-calculator.html

Just wanted to say thank you OP for your valuable work and I'm sorry you're having a hard time from posters who are bizarrely taking your words as a personal slight against them.
As someone who works in a school, I can clarify that parents do use their children in the most awful ways and push for diagnoses when professionals have stated there's nothing to diagnose. I have made more than one safeguarding referral for what I perceive to be Munchausen's by Proxy coming from a parent (sorry for the American term).

The chances are that OP's provision has a significant number of undiagnosed autistic kids...
I'm not sure this is the case. I am not an expert but know plenty of kids who attend a PRU who I do not think are ASD. Low literacy levels are more common.

I know our local PRU will investigate and pursue a diagnosis if necessary and apply for an EHCP if appropriate in most cases, so that they can get the best and most appropriate provision rather than stay in the PRU or ALP.

I like to think we are hot as a (mainstream) in recognising traits and concerns and supporting parents in investigating. We wouldn't send a child with ASD or ADHD to a PRU - if they haven't coped in mainstream we've applied for an EHCP so they can access specialist provision.

Our LEA was proposing to send my ds to a PRU if despite the support he was getting via his EHCP he failed to cope with mainstream (he was on the verge of not being though is doing better now).

We are in the same position @TheCountessofFitzdotterel - school want our DS to go to a special school but they want this RIGHT NOW despite us not having been able to even see any schools, and there not being anything anywhere near us that looks at all suitable.
I'm actually thinking that it might be a better option if they are able to provide him with a smaller school and more intensive teaching.

@drspouse sometimes it is the best option. I have one student at the moment in this position (although trying to get into specialist not a PRU). Not coping in mainstream and we just do not have the resources to cope and it's not fair on the child.

@drspouse I'm assuming your son has an EHCP if so you need to call for an emergency review of the EHCP because of breakdown of named provision. In the meantime make it a priority to look at all schools within a reasonable travelling distance both maintained and independent and special and specialist in and out of County. Also look further afield if you think boarding would be a suitable option. Priory and Hesley group both run superior independent specialist schools that LA's fund sometimes after a fight but you are in a strong position if the school wants your son out. Don't be in a position where your son is in a PRU longterm that is never the best option.

We just commented (read: ripped to shreds) the draft EHCP.
He's 7, boarding is NOT an option.

I’ve been a senco and read on Sen panels in four different areas. Just chipping in areas are wildly different.

In one area they had excellent secondary provision and a decent PRU, I’d be surprised if they had hardly any children with asd/ adhd as it was easier to follow those channels. They allocated all schools hours with specialist teachers too. The few that slipped through (often children moving) bounced back to panel pretty fast. Obviously there was the odd case that was missed, nowhere is perfect, but this was usually due to complex pictures eg possible asd masked by recent immigration, EAL and huge home country trauma. I’d say 90% of issues being routed in family difficulty or trauma correct, kids bounced around care, from war zones, huge neglectful situations etc. Not smal accusations, but horrible back stories that really were social care failings.

A neighbouring area had a crap PRU with virtual/ online teaching and was a dumping ground for the above needs, mixed in with suicidal asd anorexic girls, boys with totally unmanaged adhd and pretty much every issue you could think of. Mixed in with a lot of poverty. It was a bullying nightmare andid recommend home Ed above it frankly, even if that was really poor.

Areas are not equal by a long shot

@drspouse, sorry I just assumed he was secondary school age as Primaries IME tend to be more flexible and inclusive and PRUs here are usually for year 7 and above.
Draft EHCP is almost guaranteed to be useless, they generally always are because it's a test to see how much you know and how hard you are prepared to fight. If I tell you dd's draft EHCP quoted £1125 funding but her finalised EHCP specifies £49k funding then that indicates just how much they try it on.
Please get advice from IPSEA and SOSSEN, be prepared to go to Tribunal to get what your son needs and if you can and have funds available invest in an independent ed psych report (get recommendations and somebody who can be an expert witness if needed)

I've had a really helpful phone call from IPSEA which pointed out the multiple failings of the draft plan, and I've ripped it to shreds.

The PRU for primary has been to advise on strategies and today I got a call asking if school could share the draft EHCP with the PRU. Yes I said, but only with my notes (as it was pathetic without).
As DS is adopted, he's actually gone today to see a private clinical psych funded by the ASF and they will be writing a report based on his neurodevelopmental assessment. School and the LEA said "oh we can take that as a comment" but I think we'll want it taken a bit more seriously than that.
I am beginning to get the impression that school is a bit know-it-all and the PRU teacher did seem to think that the school "would have done everything possible" because they are "so great" but given that she (the PRU teacher) thought that there WERE additional things to do then perhaps school have NOT done everything possible.

Sometimes the least helpful schools are the ones that persist blindly on rather than accepting defeat and pushing it back to the LA. The very worst schools are the ones that think they know it all and have done it all as well. If you have got assessment by a clinical psychologist agreed can you ask for ed psych assessment to be funded as well because that report will be key to getting the sort of placement your son needs tbh?

He does have an EP report arranged by school but ASF won't fund EP. I don't believe the EP report (profile ranged from 2nd to 50th centile and some of the 2nd were things he is really keen on/asks to learn about).
I'm very cautious about repeating the EP report with the school's EP as she believes he has a learning disability which will colour her assessment, and though she initially said he was struggling with attention while she did the assessment, she now says (in the EHCP draft) that he engaged well. I suspect he will have appeared interested but not attended e.g. to instructions.

The very worst schools are the ones that think they know it all and have done it all as well. yes I am beginning to think this. We chose this school as we suspected DS would have behaviour problems through primary because of how he was at nursery. We think that most other schools would have given up on him long ago (at least, the ones we looked at would have). Now we are in this bind where we can't look at other schools because our current school will tell them not to take him "as they've tried everything".

@DrSpouse an independent ed psych report will show you exactly where your child's difficulties lie and also the specified and quantified provision needed in order to address all difficulties. An LA ordered Ed Psych report is in effect asking them to commit LA money on your child when the LA Ed Psych has been ordered beforehand not to spend money so reports are vague and non specific and fundamentally useless if you want real and working provision.
For my daughter LA Ed Psych report was three pages of waffle and recommended an Art tutor for 1 hour a week costing £30ph plus expenses. Independent ed psych report was thirty pages long, identified that dd had an IQ in the superior range (LA ed psych stated average) and had significant needs across the board that an Art tutor could never address.
If you do end up going to Tribunal to get an EHCP worth the paper it is written on you will need a decent Ed Psych report but don't get it too early (within six months of date of Tribunal is best)
My son had extreme challenging behaviour in Primary too alongside the autism. The advert for a teaching assistant to support him made me weep because it was so negative about him (probably accurate though) and it was a difficult time. School was traumatic, parents formed a petition to have him removed, we had to have police involvement after another parent tried to get into school to get to ds (in reception) and when stopped threatened to firebomb our home.
We came through the other side though and that little boy with the really bad reputation got the HT's award in year 9 in secondary for having behaviour and attitude to learning second to none. He also got 8 GCSEs and BTEC level 3s besides so the good support I fought for paid dividends.

teachandsleep how do you find the financial demands of the PRU work with the strategies to engage pupils? Do you struggle due to underfunding, or has your provision been able to manage to design a curriculum that is affordable and works for the needs of the kids?

Oh fleshmarket that sounds horrendous.
He's off having his assessment today but messages from DH suggest it's not going well and he is mainly hiding under the table. I worry this would happen if he has a private EP report too and we'll end up paying loads for not very much.

Well I can give you the name of an ed psych who is the most skilled, kind and compassionate professional I have ever worked with and who managed to spend a whole day with my daughter to get the assessment I needed. I know she has also spent a few half days with another child with CP who can only communicate through eye gaze technology to get a good report and I know she made a few trips to assess another little boy who amongst other difficulties is completely demand avoidant and non verbal.
It really is the case of getting the right person tbh and the right person will spend as long as it takes and make repeated visits to get the assessment.
I know the mum of the boy above was really worried about her son and how he would be at assessment but children seem to simply love her and enjoy playing games with her and don't seem to realise that they are being assessed.

DH says the psychologist will come and see him at home or maybe school - he's so much better when he gets to know someone over a few sessions. So that's a bit more helpful.