I'm a TA in a unit for teenagers who have been excluded from school AMA

[BitchyHen]

I've worked in a key stage 4 pupil referral unit for the last 7 years. People often ask questions about my job - after they have told me they couldn't do it. So I thought I'd make a thread if anyone's interested.

Thank you all for your questions. I'm off to bed now, it's been a loooong day. I'll check again tomorrow.

Hope you come back. This is one of the most interesting AMAs so far.

How did you get into this line of work?
What qualifications do you need?
Do people burn out and switch to easier work or stay because it's so rewarding?

It’s an obvious question : have you ever been genuinely frightened of one of your pupils?

Do your pupils all need an ehcp to access the provision?
If so, Are there circumstances in which a pupil would be admitted without an ehcp?
Do you have any advice for a yr 10 pupil who has been in 3 different secondary schools and cannot cope/keeps getting excluded? In our area an ehcp takes about a yr from start to finish, with proving things have been tried etc and the actual application being 20weeks, I fear we’ve run out of time and I worry this cycle of exclusions and new schools will continue through to school end.

What proportion of your children end up in the criminal justice system?

I recently spent some time working in a cat B men’s prison, and was told that around 70% of the population had, at some time or other, been excluded from school. I think that could have been anything from one day in exclusion/inclusion to being placed in a PRU, but still, I found that a pretty shocking statistic.

How did you get into this line of work?
I worked in a mainstream secondary as a lunchtime supervisor when my dc were small, so my background has always been behavior management. I enjoyed working with the young people so I started volunteering at literacy club, hearing them read etc. Which progressed to qualifying as a TA, I worked with a higher level TA who had previously worked in the PR U and she encouraged me to apply when a job came up.
What qualifications do you need?
I have a level 2 in Supporting Teaching and Learning, GCSE maths and English are usually required too.

Do people burn out and switch to easier work or stay because it's so rewarding
A mix of both, it become s clear very quickly if you are cut out for the job or not. So some staff stay only a short time. If you love it then you never want to go back to mainstream. My teacher colleagues tell me they have a better work/life balance as lower numbers means less marking etc.

have you ever been genuinely frightened of one of your pupils?
Once a new student shouted at me about two inches from my face, the rage in his face was pretty frightening, and because I didn't know him. I wasn't sure what was coming next. I kept my cool, asked him to leave the room, and he did. I had a little cry in the toilet and was back in the room in a couple of minutes. That was a one off from this young man towards me so I was never scared of him again.

Firstly, thank you for the work you do, vital for the students and the mainstream schools. As a governor I have been involved in four perm ex’s. I can honestly say, the decision to uphold decision was very clear, however, I know that PRU isn’t the best answer staying in school is not an option, and I can say that after reading through lots of intervention,strategies,meetings, fixed term excl etc. Often there is just more going on with students than we can effectively manage. Interestingly our area do not have much behaviour help in KS1/2 so those with behaviour issues rather than undiagnosed issues are getting out of control by secondary. Of course I cannot give you data on successes in mainstream either. It’s a shame if your area is above average perm ex. Why do you think academies make it more likely?

Do your pupils all need an ehcp to access the provision? If so, Are there circumstances in which a pupil would be admitted without an ehcp?
No, most of our pupils don't have a n EHCP. When a child is permanently excluded the LA has 3days to find a place so they come to us. When a school wants to move a child , their paperwork is presented to a panel of headteachers who decide the best place for them, another mainstream school, a PRU or the EBD school.

Do you have any advice for a yr 10 pupil who has been in 3 different secondary schools and cannot cope/keeps getting excluded?
I would advise the parents to be proactive with school, there are other provisions that schools can use to place a student, one of these might suit him/her better. There may be somewhere he/she can go to do something more practical and hands on. Some young people have had great success accessing a regular work placement one or two days a week instead of education. Does the pupil want to be in mainstream secondary and get their GCSEs or are they disengaged from education?

Why do you think academies make it more likely?
In my experience the academies are focused on academic success and making everyone conform. They tend to take a zero tolerance approach to behavior which means they are less likely to spend time finding out why a student is misbehaving. Academies in my area are less likely to spend money on intervention for their pupils who are not coping with school, preferring to shuffle them round the other academies in their trust. Academies in my area present more pupils for transfer to the PR U and are much less likely to take one from us who is ready to reintegrate than non academies. In the time I have worked in the PRU most of the local schools have become academies and the PRU has increased capacity to cope. This academic year we were full in September (for the first time ever) and have had to increase capacity again to accommodate perm ex students.

I'm off to work now. Thank you for the fantastic questions.I'll pop back in later.

Describe what happened to your biggest success story.

My sister does this job as well and says most teens in her unit have ASD and or ADHD and don’t cope in mainstream. She has noticed the numbers of these pupils has increased with decreased funding in education. Secondary schools are just not coping and neither are these pupils.

Very good thread OP. Your students that have ADHD, are they On medication?
Where they diagnosed and medicated before they came to you?

Also do you think dc with mild SEN should ideally remain in mainstream or a separate unit?

In my experience the academies are focused on academic success and making everyone conform. They tend to take a zero tolerance approach to behavior which means they are less likely to spend time finding out why a student is misbehaving. Academies in my area are less likely to spend money on intervention for their pupils who are not coping with school, preferring to shuffle them round the other academies in their trust.

My son is and always has struggled in school. 3 different primary schools - we moved him due to the constant criticism and relentless negativity from teachers about his attitude and behaviour.
All three schools refused to accept he could have adhd/anxiety and chose to believe he was in control of his behaviour.

He is now 15 and has struggled to fit in at secondary school, has been excluded several times and again they believe he is choosing his behaviour.

I however see an incredible hyper active impulsive child from age 3, unable to focus or behave appropriately around other kids, butting in on conversations, rocking, sensory issues (he kept rubbing chubby arms/faces at school). Upsetting others but not understanding why it upset people. He was a horrendous child at home from 4. No issues at home, no abuse/drugs/drink. Parents still together (just!!).

He's fallen so far behind at high school he's anxious about his future and has massive anger issues and will lash out at walls/doors etc. He's now started smoking weed to cope and chill out.

I'm at my wits end. There is no help.

My son is being left to the scrap heap. He wants to become a joiner/plumber and has a good work ethic but school cancelled his work experience due to his 'behaviour' in school.

What advice can you give us now?
I feel School are adding to his mental health problems and giving him more anxiety than he can cope with. I'm terrified he'll end up lamping a teacher. Some of them seem to enjoy antagonising him for a reaction so they can put him out the class.

Sorry to butt in on your thread OP but I noticed hopelesslydevotedtoGu asked what happened to students if they were excluded from the pru, I have experience in a school for children who come to us from the pru, mainly semh but some sen too.

Describe what happened to your biggest success story.

In terms of personal achievement we had a girl come to us suffering with severe anxiety, at mainstream school she was on a modified timetable of one hour a day and her attendance was at 30%. At first she only managed a short amount of time with us each day and often had to go home due to panic attacks, but she soon coped with longer periods at school and by the end of the academic year was doing full days. Although she wasn't a high ability student, she achieved level 1qualifications in maths and English and a BTEC and was able to progress to college.

My sister does this job as well and says most teens in her unit have ASD and or ADHD and don’t cope in mainstream. She has noticed the numbers of these pupils has increased with decreased funding in education. Secondary schools are just not coping and neither are these pupils
I agree with your sister Delores, that neither schools nor pupils with additional needs are coping. Some of this may be because the current government are focused on academic achievement, for some of these young people a more practical,work based education would engage them better and meet their additional needs more effectively.

Your students that have ADHD, are they On medication?
Where they diagnosed and medicated before they came to you?
Some of the m are on medication, the trouble is that growing bodies mean a regular adjustment to doses which can lead to some difficulties. Some of the meds can make you extremely hungry so we keep cereal bars etc in to help with that. Lots of others are undiagnosed or going through the diagnosis process.In my area CAMHS has a massive waiting list so it can take a long time. We refer to CAMHS, but sometimes parents won't consent to the referral as they think a diagnosis will hold their child back or stigmatise them.

Also do you think dc with mild SEN should ideally remain in mainstream or a separate unit?
I think ideally that should be looked at in an individual basis. Some children can cope and thrive in mainstream with the right support, and some can't.

Failingat40
Does your son have a diagnosis of ADHD? If not then a referral to CAMHS through your gp is the first thing to pursue. Be aware that waiting lists may be very long. Your local authority may be able to refer you to a family support worker, they can help you to get support from your school.
In my experience many young people with anxiety display it as anger, and self medicating with cannabis is also very common. I believe your son's experience with teachers is also not uncommon.

Keep the channels of communication open with school. Find a sympathetic staff member, form tutor, head of house/year, senco, and make sure they know you are a supportive parents who wants to help your son.

Above all, be kind to yourself. It's very easy to blame yourself for what is happening with your child, and he will come through it. Most children who struggle with school absolutely thrive in the workplace.

Thank you @BitchyHen
We have no diagnosis GP when he was 4 was useless and said to keep a food diary. No follow up or plan for any support.

School also didn't offer any advice or any real support.

We pushed for an 'informal' observation to be done in school lat year but it turns out this was carried out by a lone trainee ed psych using school notes only - he wasn't observed in the class.
Her opinion based on the notes was he was in control therefore no adhd.

Your experience of kids thriving in the workplace out with school has given me tremendous hope, thank you.

You're welcome Failingat40 I hope you will be able to get some support.

Thanks for your reply BitchyHen

BitchyHen Thanks very much for your reply.

Failing

Your story touched me . Can you pursue both the great advice here and also explore non school related training and Work experience ?

And change your username please