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AMA

I'm a Barrister..Ask me Anything

68 replies

BarristerAMA · 13/07/2018 15:24

Except for legal advice on specific situations :)

I worry that there is such a lack of legal education in our society (the misunderstandings around the Tommy Robinson case being a prime example) so want to do my bit to contribute to the discussion.

I am a common law barrister, which means I practice in many different areas of law.

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LipstickHandbagCoffee · 13/07/2018 17:42

Knowing what you know now would you chose same career?

BarristerAMA · 13/07/2018 17:58

Do you know any practising barrister from a working class background?

Yes, some. It is definitely harder to get there from a WC background though.

What do you think of our adversarial legal system?

It is hard to say as I have not experienced anything else. I think it generally fulfills its purpose, and our legal culture is so deeply ingrained in it it would be difficult to change now.

Who is your typical client?

I don't really have one - I represent public bodies, paedophiles, the police, junkies, FTSE 100 companies, divorcees, parents with children in care, victims of medical negligence and everyone in between! I love the variety of my work.

Knowing what you know now would you chose same career?

Absolutely. I love it and cannot see myself doing anything else. It is definitely more of a lifestyle than a job though.

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BarristerAMA · 13/07/2018 17:58

Atomic - all the reason to get someone involved quickly then. Good luck.

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Waxlyrically · 13/07/2018 21:32

I’m due to be an expert witness next week ( land law area). How can I make the opposition barrister’s life difficult without appearing unreasonable?
What annoys you about your own expert witnesses? How much prep do you expect of them?
When a case/ hearing finishes do you put it out of your mind instantly and let your hair down/ focus on next case?
Do you work every weekend?

user1495884620 · 13/07/2018 21:43

I have seen judges absolutely tear a strip off barristers in open court. Have you ever been in this situation? How did you feel? And how do you deal with it?

Also, in my experience, barristers are very quick thinking and articulate. Are these learned skills or do you need to have them already? Does a private education help in developing these skills?

BarristerAMA · 13/07/2018 22:08

I’m due to be an expert witness next week ( land law area). How can I make the opposition barrister’s life difficult without appearing unreasonable?

I actually think you should not try to make the opposition barrister's life difficult. There is nothing so devastating as an expert who is perfectly neutral, who has no horse in the race and is just coming to proper conclusions as they see it.

Presumably you have met with the other side's expert and know where the issues of disagreement are between the two of you. Just make sure you clearly and patiently explain your position. Don't lose your temper!

What annoys you about your own expert witnesses? How much prep do you expect of them?

When they say one thing in conference, then climb down from that position after three questions in cross examination. Be honest with your barrister in con - there should not be any surprises. Most experts assume everyone in court knows much more than they do - make sure you explain all the terminology and reasoning and do not be afraid to seem patronising.

I expect them to know their report and know the facts upon which their conclusions are based in a lot of detail. I don't expect them to be over-rehearsed - that never comes across well.

Finally - if you have made an assumption in your report, be prepared to defend it. That is where the opposition barrister will be looking to attack you (if they are any good).

When a case/ hearing finishes do you put it out of your mind instantly and let your hair down/ focus on next case?

I am much better at doing this these days, but it is not always possible. I really do meet people at the most dreadful time in their lives, and I don't think you can speak to a 3 year old who has been raped and then just go out on the lash later that evening.

That being said, I cannot emotionally invest in all my cases as that is not healthy. I try to put work in a box in my brain and make an effort to forget about it and focus on my family and friends.

I also have some great barrister friends who I generally rant to about everything!

Do you work every weekend?
I try to have one day off and work the other day. I probably work one weekend in two.

I definitely work hard, but it is much more "up and down" than someone who has an office job - e.g. I could be in the High Court at 10am, adrenaline running, but be finished by 12pm and home to do my washing. There is no routine, which is both a good and bad thing.

I have seen judges absolutely tear a strip off barristers in open court. Have you ever been in this situation? How did you feel? And how do you deal with it?

There are different types of judicial tellings off. More often than not, I am being told off because my solicitor or client have not done something they should. I don't mind that, that is par for the course and it is not personal.

Secondly, you can have a real barney with a judge over your case. They test your points, you push back, and it can get a little bit heated. I love that. That is part of the reason I joined the job.

The final type of telling off is the personal, unnecessary attack. I have not been on the receiving end of very many and I have to work hard to keep my temper. They have no place in the courtroom.

, in my experience, barristers are very quick thinking and articulate. Are these learned skills or do you need to have them already? Does a private education help in developing these skills?

I think you need to have a quick mind, but like with everything, you learn to anticipate situations and handle them appropriately with experience.

Being articulate is partly learned, but more just a matter of practice. Court advocacy has its own particular advocacy language, and you just need to keep using it.

I think private school may help with being articulate, but the most important quality is being able to come up with and explain your arguments. I think that is largely talent, that is refined the longer you do the job. Good advocacy is a skill like any other, and the bar offers really decent training for its youngsters.

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Andromeida59 · 15/07/2018 11:10

Hello. Thanks for your responses. I'd be interested to know what you think about the recent spate of court closures across the country and what impact you feel this could have on the judicial system.

Tuareg · 15/07/2018 15:55

For those that are looking for a career change.... is there an upper age ‘limit’ to start on a legal career?
Thanks

BarristerAMA · 15/07/2018 20:43

I'd be interested to know what you think about the recent spate of court closures across the country and what impact you feel this could have on the judicial system.

I think that, all things being equal, justice should be local. Many vulnerable people use our courts: people who cannot just jump on a train / drive their car to the next town.

That being said, prosecution numbers have been declining for several years now. The justice system is on its knees - arguably more so than any other branch of the public sector (except those related areas, such as probation and prison).

The truth is that there are no votes in a well-run justice system, even though it is in all our interests that one exists. So if court closures were necessary to save money and put it into other aspects of the system, I might be in favour. Sadly the Ministry of Justice are full of ridiculous plans and false economies, so I cannot see these closures as bringing about any useful change. Ex courts do make some lovely flats though.

For those that are looking for a career change.... is there an upper age ‘limit’ to start on a legal career?

Definitely not at the Bar - if anything it is an advantage to be a bit older (I started in my early twenties and got a lot of "are you old enough to be a barrister?")

That being said, the road to the Bar is long and arduous. As well as the law degree / law conversion course, training to be a barrister costs between £15 - £20k, and pupillage renumeration in many areas is low.

I have interviewed people for scholarships in the past. I saw a lot of women, aged 40 - 55, with caring commitments (often single mums) who had given up everything to "pursue their dream" of going to the Bar.

Often they did not seem to really understand how competitive it is or how difficult life at the self-employed Bar can be. I worry that they have given up a lot with not much promised to them in return.

However, I know plenty of older people who came to the Bar with a plan and their eyes open who have made a huge success of it.

So I would say to any career changer - research with care (the legal profession is so varied and often very different to the public perception) and assess yourself objectively. When you speak to people in the profession, try to get behind their platitudes of "go for it" and glean the information that will really help you decide if it is the career for you or not.

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Hortonlovesahoo · 15/07/2018 21:22

This has been fascinating! Thank you for answering in such detail.

Do you choose your cases? Or are you at the mercy of someone else giving you the good/bad jobs? I remember a friend from uni when they were starting out getting all of the crap jobs (one day in Newcastle and the next morning in Cornwall for example).

sharkirasharkira · 15/07/2018 22:00

I've only done a little bit of law study, found it fascinating!

Is there anything you would change about the justice system? Or any verdicts that you really didn't agree with? There were some case studies I heard that I was astounded about the verdict, it made no sense to me! How do you deal with it if a case goes really badly?

BarristerAMA · 15/07/2018 22:24

Do you choose your cases? Or are you at the mercy of someone else giving you the good/bad jobs? I remember a friend from uni when they were starting out getting all of the crap jobs (one day in Newcastle and the next morning in Cornwall for example)

Ah yes - the joy that is clerks. To answer your first question, no I am not allowed to choose my cases. In our code of conduct we have a rule called the "cab rank rule" - just as a cab must pick up the next person in the queue, we must pick up the next client, irrespective of our views on the individual or their case.

The only exceptions is if the case is not in our area of practice, we are not sufficiently experienced to do it or (very rarely) the fee is not high enough. Most of my work is publicly funded, so the latter does not apply (even though the descimation of legal aid fees in the last few years is a disgrace).

Sets of Chambers employ clerks. Their job is to liaise with solicitors to get us work, organise our diaries and otherwise sort our fees. My clerks are brilliant, but some are known to be rather domineering and bullying. Because they organise the work in Chambers, they have a lot of power. They can wield that power against the junior members of Chambers, although that should not happen.

However, the more experienced you get, the more likely you are to have solicitors who want to instruct you especially. So many of my solicitors will ring and ask for BarristerAMA for a particular case, and will not be put off by the clerks offering them X, Y or Z barrister. When you start getting your own following, the power balance between you and your clerks changes.

I definitely have more freedom than an employed person - I take time off as and when I like, as long as there is not a case in my diary.

Is there anything you would change about the justice system?

I would re-introduce the requirement that the Minister of Justice must be legally qualified. I would also pump a lot more money into the system (obviously on the proviso it is spent properly).

I would also ensure that there was more support for prisoners leaving prison and more programmes for female offenders, who often have a very distinct set of issues.

Finally, I would introduce more transparency into the family courts and reintroduce legal aid for private family and some civil matters.

I would also make basic legal education a compulsory part of secondary school education.

Oh, and I would re-open all the court canteens that have closed!

If this is something you are interested in, I would really recommend the Secret Barrister's book "the law and how it is broken". It is a fascinating read. No, I am not the Secret Barrister (I wish).

Or any verdicts that you really didn't agree with?

With jury trials, I find I usually accept the verdict, probably because they just say "guilty" or "not guilty", and so I cannot pick apart their reasoning.

I often disagree with judgments from judges in family or civil matters - who give a long set of reasons as to why they have concluded what they have.

But there are only a few occasions that I can recall where the judge has just been plain wrong. And in those circumstances there is usually a right of appeal.

There were some case studies I heard that I was astounded about the verdict, it made no sense to me! How do you deal with it if a case goes really badly?

With family and civil law, it is important to remember that a lot of the evidence is on the paper. So it is actually quite difficult for a reporter, listening in on the case, to get a full grasp on the issues. A good example of this is the terribly sad cases of Charlie Gard / Alfie Evans. Both were far more complex than can be gleaned from the media.

With crime, the truth is that it often comes down to whether the jury believe the witnesses or not. That is quite an intangible thing.

No doubt miscarriages of justice happen, but more of then than not there is just gaps in the facts the public have.

My approach to my cases is that I can only control what I can - so my job is to do the best job I can on behalf of whoever my client is.

The outcome of the case is usually out of my hands and I have become much more philosophical about things with age. I am not responsible for the mistakes made by my clients. But I always assess my performance to ensure that I have done everything I can. As long as I can satisfy myself of that, I can generally sleep at night.

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lulu12345 · 16/07/2018 07:49

Fascinating thread, thanks for doing this OP.

Crude question alert.. what are typical earnings at the various levels of experience / specialisation?

AhhhhThatsBass · 16/07/2018 09:52

How do you cope when you're representing an alledged paedophile, on trial for committing heinous crimes against and by extension one who you yourself believe to be guilty. I know you said upthreat that you try to compartmentalise but doesn't even interracting with them make you feel sick? I think I'd struggle with that.

AhhhhThatsBass · 16/07/2018 09:53

*omitted the word babies

BarristerAMA · 16/07/2018 18:04

There are a couple of points here.

Firstly, in order for the criminal justice system to function properly, defendants need to be represented. Defendants appearing in person help no-one. The trial is much longer because they do not know what they are doing and the judge has to explain everything to them. They also often get acquitted, quite possibly because the jury feel sorry for them and worry they have not had a fair chance to put their case. So, by defending these people, I am often helping to get convictions.

Secondly, the seriousness of someone’s crime does not always correspond to how pleasant or easy to deal with they are in person. I have dealt with murderers who are an absolute dream to work with and people with a speeding conviction who I would happily hit over the head with the (no longer used) judge’s gavel.

Thirdly, as a professional I become desensitised to things. Just as an A&E nurse probably gets less shocked by things as life goes on, barristers are the same. Of course, if I hear something on the news or something happens to a friend or family member, I react in the same way as everyone else. A close family member was a victim of what, in the grand scheme of things, is a relatively minor criminal offence. But because I love my family member, I wanted the offender hung drawn and quartered! You see things differently depending on the circumstances.

Finally, if I know someone is guilty I cannot go into court and advance a case that they are innocent. My first duty is not to mislead the court.

However, by “knowing” someone is guilty I mean someone who has given me guilty instructions, either by admitting the offence or advancing a set of facts that do not amount to a defence in law (e.g. it is not lawful to carry a knife for self-defence. Someone in that position may consider themselves to be innocent of the offence of possession or an offensive weapon, but in fact be guilty on their instructions).

If someone gives me guilty instructions, I advise them to plead guilty. If the will not, I can only test the strength of the evidence against them. I cannot advance a positive defence, as I know that to be untrue. If my client asks me to lie to the court, I have to withdraw from representing them as I am “professionally embarrassed”.

The other circumstance is that where all the evidence suggests that they did it, but they deny it. History has long shown us that even the most unlikely defences can be true, and therefore I will continue to represent them to the best of my ability.

I am sometimes asked if a barrister will do a less good job for a client they believe to be guilty of an heinous crime. The answer is no - our professional integrity means we fight tooth and nail for everyone we are instructed to represent.

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BarristerAMA · 16/07/2018 18:08

As for earnings - I only have a rough idea as obviously people do not talk about it all the time!

At the top of the scale, a senior barrister doing tax or chancery work can earn well over a million pounds a year.

Commercial practitioners would earns in the low hundred thousands.

Those doing publicly funded work earn a lot less. Some barristers, even experienced ones, earn around £50k a year, which when you consider that there is no pension, holiday or maternity allowance and the level of responsibility they have, is really not particularly high.

Finally baby barrister (5 years experience and under) doing criminal work can earn in the region or £20 - £25k.

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AhhhhThatsBass · 17/07/2018 13:12

Thank you for your details answer(s). Very insightful.

glintandglide · 17/07/2018 13:25

Thanks so much OP. This is fascinating

What advice would you give a school girl who wants to persue the law?

BarristerAMA · 17/07/2018 16:46

I would tell her to try and do work experience in as many different types of law as possible - the job is so diverse in every way that only by experiencing it all can she really know if it is for her.

I would tell her not to do it for the money or the prestige, because there is more of both in far easier lines of work.

I would tell her to get the best grades she can, to read widely and develop an interest in politics and current affairs. Law is embedded in so many different sections of society it pays to have a broad interest.

She should reach out for opportunities - work experience, the mock trial competition, debating competitions - because they will not come to her.

I would tell her to question everything and always try and look at a problem from both sides.

People often tell me they want to be barristers because they are "good at arguing with their family", but the truth is that when we argue in our personal lives, we do it from a position of our own self-interest.

A lawyer can argue from one side, then immediately switch and argue just as convincingly from the other. Those are the skills she wants to work at developing.

Finally I would tell her to have fun and follow her passions in life - which may or may not be the law.

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BrassicaBabe · 17/07/2018 18:53

Barrister I did a spell on jury duty this year...AMA WinkGrin

(if ever I'm in that position I think I'd rather have a trail without a jury!! Bench trail? Grin)

glintandglide · 17/07/2018 19:42

Thank you, brilliant post

Fatbelliedgirl · 17/07/2018 19:48

Do you deliberately give some witnesses/defendants a hard time in Court e.g. intense interrogation? Do you enjoy doing so?

How did you learn to cross question?

Twillow · 17/07/2018 20:42

Definitely one of the best AMAs! Very interesting. Do you do pro bono and how does it work, do clients apply for it?

BarristerAMA · 17/07/2018 21:04

Do you deliberately give some witnesses/defendants a hard time in Court e.g. intense interrogation? Do you enjoy doing so?

The answer to both questions is yes - but probably not in the way you imagine.

It is important to note that many of the features of the American system that you see on TV dramas are not present in the English system. We cannot approach the witness box, wave our hands around, shout in the way that you see in American courts.

That being said, cross examination has traditionally been a very robust art. Ultimately, you ask questions to undermine someone's testimony, and in an adversarial system there is an inevitable conflict there.

When you speak of giving someone a hard time, I think you mean being deliberately rude or combative. I try to be neither. However I do try and destroy their evidence and credibility as politely as I can. There is no sense in being overly aggressive - the jury (if it is a jury trial) are likely to conclude that the witness is being bullied by the barrister. Much better to rip them to shreds with politeness!

As well as this, in recent years, there is far more guidance on the way that questions are put to children, other vulnerable people and complainants in sex cases.

For example, if I was cross examining a neuro-typical adult, I would ask leading questions - that is questions that suggest the answer. For example "You attacked him first, didn't you".

The law now says I cannot ask leading questions to children, as they are often suggestible and will agree with a person in authority whether or not they agree with the proposition being put forward.

Likewise, the law on asking about previous sexual history (for example in a rape case) is tightly regulated. There has been some nonsense in the press from certain MPs since the Ched Evans case about how sexual history should never be admitted into trials.

That is clearly nonsensical - if the complainant and the defendant had consensual sexual intercourse the night before the alleged rape occured, this should surely be something the jury should hear about. It does not mean that the complainant was not raped the next night, but it is at least relevant to their considerations.

The horror stories of the past about women getting cross examined on what they were wearing etc has largely gone. The jury are also directed on "rape myths", such as the timing of a complaint (people do not always complain straight away) and that not every victim of sexual assault "fights back". So there is hope!

How did you learn to cross question?

A combination of experience and being taught it on courses run by more senior barristers. The Bar has a great tradition of "handing down the torch" to those of the next generation - there is a great camaraderie and community spirit (which may well have developed from a public school / Oxbridge bias in its early days).

Cross examination has very particular rules and techniques which barristers try to follow, to greater or lesser success. The basic idea is that you build to your points through short questions.

For example. let's say that you are the alleged victim of an assault by my client. My client says he hit you in self-defence after you attacked him first.

I could just say to you:

"You attacked my client first, didn't you?"

To which you would probably answer "no". And I have not got any further in my cross examination.

What I really want to do is put facts to you that you cannot dispute that shows how my conclusion (that you were the aggressor) is likely to be the right version of events. For example:

"You were drunk that evening, weren't you?" A: Yes
"You had just split up from your boyfriend?" A: Yes
"You were upset about that?" A: Yes
"My client spilt a drink on you at the bar?" A: Yes
"You thought that was deliberate, didn't you?" A: Yes
"He had embarrassed you in front of your friends, hadn't he?" A: Yes

Having asked these questions, I can then put exactly the same question as I put before:

"You attacked my client first, didn't you?" To which you will still answer "no" - but it seems like a much weaker answer this time round.

Hope that makes a bit of sense.

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