I'm a British Born Pakistani - AMA

[Pyracantha1]

Hello All!

I'm a British Born Pakistani. Please ask me anything. Should it be about our culture, traditions, marriages, Asian food etc. I'll try my best to answer

I've sent you a PM. Hope you don't mind

I have responded. Happy to help

Nuttyella7

Thank you for sharing your experience. My husband often talks about the racism he experienced growing up (he is from Lancashire) but I have to say that I didn't experience very much at all whilst growing up. Maybe due to Birmingham being such a mixed community city we were never confronted with racism head on.

I do think that our generation (I'm 33) are much more integrated and push our children to be integrated too. It's a very positive step

*You would happily call yourself British - great! So why don't you? Is it because of the people who keep on "where are you REALLY from?"

Don't give in to them. We're British. That is all.

But then why start a thread like this at all? We're British. Now let's crack on with being British. Also your title description made no sense whatsoever.*

But my heritage is Pakistani and my life since birth has heavily been influenced by it. Can we lay this to rest now? Thanks

Lighthousesouth

That’s fine if you don’t feel any kind of connection to your cultural heritage or even if you feel ashamed of it. No one is asking you to agree with everyone else who sees themselves as a British Pakistani. Same way you should not be so strongly opiniated, so if you choose to live your life a certain way then everyone else like you should adhere to the same rules.
Do you actually believe within the logical thinking that if everyone of colour was of the same mindset as you, then racism would be completely eradicated. A racist person would not give a rats arse how much you see yourself or behave British, they will take one look at you and already class you within their preconceived notion. So stop fooling yourself into believing that it’s because of these kind of people who can’t just see themselves as British make it harder for ME to be accepted as British.
If you cannot be accepted stop using others as a scapegoat for your problems.

OP, lay it to rest when you started "AMA" - oh the irony!

Nutty, no I don't think racism would be eradicated but I do think the title is completely wrong and misleading and I'm in the camp who actually misses the racism of the 1980s because it could be dealt with head on. Now people think they are being polite when they ask about origins.

Somewhere along the long the line, integration vanished and that's a shame.

Anyway I can bugger off now because i didn't say "I'm a stroppy Londoner, ask me anything"

Op I don’t believe there is anything wrong with Being British pakistani.

There is a lot of difficulty that comes with learning to cope with both cultures from a young age and a lot of blessings too. Denying association to any of the two cultures that influenced you is like divorcing your identity. I’m proud of you.

British Arab here :) lool.

For some people it’s about ethnicity and colour and for others like me it’s abour heritage and appreciating and embracing the beauties of both cultures...

That you Katie? 🙄

squeelof1 bahahahaha the ignorance..

You do realise that most Asians came here because YOUR English ancestors invaded their land and did some form of exchange between land for passports right ???

I suppose if I called squeelof1 a cunt it would be deleted for breaking mn talk guidelines

ILoveHumanity

Thank you! Completely agree with you. Our identity isn't always linear and straightforward. It's influenced by so many things. What it's influenced by is up to us and our upbringing. There no right or wrong answer here. Just how we see ourselves.

squeelof1

You are a great example of what is wrong with the world. Live and let live. The world wasn't created for one type of people. The differences and variety is what makes our world so rich.

What did squeal

What did squeel1 say

What did squeel1 say

Something full of prejudice

What “people” feel pissed off about the descriptor “British born Pakistani”? Racist arsehole?

I don’t feel pissed off by it. I see nothing wrong with people acknowledging their cultural heritage, particularly in a thread which is about having a dual culture (because that is obviously what it is).

I don’t consider myself British first and foremost, I describe myself as Welsh. On forms I generally tick British Other rather than flat British.

SemperIdem

Why have you put "people" in inverted commas?

We talk a lot about the importance of words on the feminist boards. It's particularly relevant at the moment with TRA issues, so called misgendering issues, gas lighting and the erasure of women.

I find the words important. I am a British born British woman. Apparently so is the op. She could have said "I'm a British woman with Pakistani background".

As per the current AMA hijab thread, there is an argument that one persons
' choice impacts on another person's choice.

The way OP and many others choose to describe themselves, I feel, has led to much more questioning of what constitutes "British". I find it depressing. Op said her Ask me Anything. So I did. I've been called a traitor by this sort of person many times.

I'm a fair bit older than OP. Racism was easier to tackle, not just for me, but for many in my known circle, in the past. I know racism goes in waves. But it would help if people were more careful with their words, just like the transgender issues which are causing a lot of confusion.

LightHouse... Oh just go back to your transgender threads and leave your racism out of here....

Im Arab British... and a Hijabi.. Happy?

you seem to want to pick a fight with a muslim...

Against whom am I being racist?

And how would you know if I was a Muslim or not? Or Arab? I haven't said where my folks came from.

*@LighthouseSouth *

The way OP and many others choose to describe themselves, I feel, has led to much more questioning of what constitutes "British". I find it depressing. Op said her Ask me Anything. So I did. I've been called a traitor by this sort of person many times.

OP has started an AMA thread, not a 'debate with me' one. Your entitled to your opinion just as everyone else is. Why do you have to get so personal? If she has respected your views why can't you do the same?
Wow someone called you a traitor and you will now categorise OP as 'one of them' based on a few paragraphs she wrote and offload the blame on her.

This is an informal thread so excuse people for not being politically correct when using terms or words to describe how they feel, or how they choose to voice their opinion.
Please stop using others as a scapegoat for your own experiences of rejection.

Put your opinion across and listen to everyone else's. Not continue to badger someone for not changing their views because you feel they should based on your personal opinion or experiences.
This is not parliament. It's a Mumsnet thread where everyone's opinion counts whether you like it or not.

Nutty "OP has started an AMA thread, not a 'debate with me' one"

Ah, I read them the same way. As it's not Parliament, we don't have terms of reference officially set, and I see Ask me Anything as a way of engaging with all questions.

My latest post was not to the op but I was puzzled by the inverted commas and the accusation of racism so felt it important to reply.

I've heard a few people say we find current racism harder to face than what we faced thirty years ago, amid I think words are key to that. As you say, we are entitled to our opinions and to post.

Also I genuinely thought the op could be a British born resident in Pakistan. We do have lots of international posters.

Terminology losing meaning is very confusing.

Lighthouse

My apologies, I should have bolded your name at the start of my post. I was asking you what people have made it more difficult for you to be considered British. White British people, ethnic minority British people? Your post seemed quite angry but lacking in detail.

I see you have elaborated since.

The way OP and many others choose to describe themselves, I feel, has led to much more questioning of what constitutes "British". I find it depressing. Op said her Ask me Anything. So I did. I've been called a traitor by this sort of person many times

"This sort of a person". You don't know me. Just because I chose to share a few details about me you seem to think that you have my DNA mapped. You want others to stop describing you in a certain way, yet you easily label others. The irony.

It's not just me who will describe myself as British Pakistani but every census, application, governmental documents, NHS documents describes me as such. If people just left it as British then maybe I would call myself just British. However it's been beaten into us that that is how we must describe ourselves. So I am. I have embraced it. Because that is MY HERITAGE.

You can't tell me how to feel or how to identify myself.

Long post warning

OP - you too feel it's been "beaten in to us" - your words. So tell them to fuck themselves!

that's exactly why I said about the pre census form! Note you are much younger than I am....this form filling labelling makes it a problem and I've been forced to work on some of these bloody forms so your description genuinely confused me. And now you say you feel beaten into it? We are in the same page!

You're allowed to talk about your experience. I'm allowed to talk about mine, I asked if you were the sort to ask "where are you REALLY from" because IME that's common when people want to use dual terms for themselves. I didn't know you felt it was beaten into you.

Some posters will remember the BNP. Even in my 20s I thought suppose they win and try to send me "back" to a country I've never been to. Can you see why I must hold tight to my Britishness from fear as well as pride? And the children of Windrush, similar position.

I've had people walk away at social gatherings when they find I don't speak a language other than English. Not "their" language. Oh the sin! I'm used to a level of prejudice to the point that I'm not even sorry I said it to you. How's that for honesty on an ASk Me Anything thread?

I've been told I'm denying my heritage when I'm a born and raised Londoner and never went to the place my parents left, joyfully left, because women are treated like shit. London IS my heritage. It's most of my parents adult life too, they are 80, it's their history too.

I'm at a stage where I have to ask myself where do I want this to go? People take my British identity less seriously than they used to. What can I do about that? Some days this might be well served by talking about it on a talk board.

I bloody HATE those ethnicity forms, my friend's son just turned 18 and you know you have to fill in all the official stuff for everything, he said to me "why won't they just accept I'm British?" I don't know. He has two British born parents as well. How far back must this information go?

Sadiq Khan spoke very eloquently today. It reminded me, he's a south London boy, yet when he did a trip to Pakistan a fecking BBC reporter said to him "how does it feel to be home?" And Sadiq, with his usual dignity, said "home is South London, mate".

Honestly I could wring that reporter's neck. But is that fair or is he too confused by all the terminology? Hmm...I'm going with racist!

I want to stand up for all of us who some people refuse to accept as British. Sometimes that will mean uncomfortable conversations and challenging things like terminology on a chat board.

If this rant makes ONE person understand me and other non white British people in the same situation, a bit better, it's been worth it! I see a lot of casual racism on MN, including "but where are you REALLY from" being defended. ENOUGH!

Don't let the bastards beat into you. All this labelling is an excellent way to divide and conquer via identity politics.

Would you be remotely bothered if your DC had white British non-Muslim partners?

My DP's mum is a Pakistani immigrant, all of her 5 kids (born here) have white partners, she doesn't outwardly say anything but I do wonder if she secretly wishes it was different. I do realise you can't tell me how she feels, but is it something you/your parents would have an issue with?