I'm an evangelical Christian - ask me anything

[Insieme]

I'm happy to answer questions, though I'm not interested if people just come on to be insulting.

I can only give my views and talk about what I believe - evangelicalism covers a broad spectrum of beliefs and I can only speak for myself.

Ask away!

My understanding is that believing in God will lead you to love God and others as yourself which should lead you away from sin.

OP, I am divorced, left for OW and have been celebrated ever since. I would not want him back. I am stuck and miss having someone to love and be loved in that way.

Twofalls I have answered a similar question, it's just a few posts back. But if anyone else has a better answer, do chip in!

But listen if I understand correctly the OP has said a life without sin isn't possible. It's why Jesus died for our sins. Seems an awful lot of weight on one mans shoulders to me. Would be interested to hear OPs explanation.

Yes, thankyou, Insieme, I really appreciate this thread too as someone from a position with quite a few similarities to yours :)

Twofalls, really good and important question about how it seeks blatantly unfair for people who've been more 'obviously' sinful or even evil to be able to ask for forgiveness and be granted it. It doesn't necessarily look like what we'd think of as justice, would it?

An author I admire says that God's grace is scandalous precisely because of this. God's grace is generous and outrageous and allows for the pardon for the worst of things. But instead of getting upset about seeming injustice, I look at the root of it, which is pure love. And the way in which I identify with it is when I think about the love I have for my own children.

I love them with everything I am, so if one of them did go off the rails, reject me and do some pretty nasty stuff, I would be devastated - but I think I would always want to forgive them and bring them home. It's like the parable of the prodigal son - to the brother who stayed loyal to the father it might have seemed unfair that his waste of space brother was welcomed back with a feast and forgiveness without question, but for the father it was because he was overjoyed his son had come home and asked forgiveness.

It's God's nature to be massively generous with forgiveness simply because of his love and joy in every human being. And because of Jesus he's able to look beyond the evil and proclaim forgiveness on that person when they ask.

I love grace, because I love God's heart of wild generosity and acceptance. No one can do anything to not be forgiven, and grace is free and undeserved. I love this narrative - that of disregarding the notion of only the deserving being granted the good things and the undeserving being left out. God's kingdom is a subversive one: the first are last and the last are first.

So it isn't about earning God's love or a 'placr in heaven', but about accepting a free gift with gratitude and awe, and then allowing that to shape you into a person who becomes more like Jesus - more patient, kind, generous etc.

The Bible is very clear that those who accept this gift and then ignore it are not following God in the spirit of the gift. They're allowing it to bexome 'cheap grace' as Paul puts it - so saying they're saved and don't have to bother with anything more. They can simply carry on with their old lifestyle. But grace, though given freely, actually changes hearts and lives so those who accept it form new attitudes and ways of living. I've seen these kinds of amazing transformations countless times.

Sorry for essay!

And madhairday answered that question not only eloquently but beautifully. There's both a simplicity in God's free gift of grace, and also a complex beauty that takes a lifetime or more to appreciate.

Thank you madhair. I appreciate your answer. I suppose my issue is that I am an atheist who lives a good life. I try to be empathetic and kind. You say my values are "Christian". And yet you would possibly think I am less of a person, possibly condemned to going to hell because I do not believe. If god did exist would he not appreciate the fact I have led a good life rather than worrying about what I believed.l

Sorry. Typing one handed trying to rub a hot dds back to help her sleep! This may not be as articulate as I would like but I hope you get my drift!

Oh twofalls, hope she falls asleep soon, this heat is unbearable, especially for little ones!

I'm truly sorry if it came over in any way as me thinking you are less of a person. Far, far from it. So many people are truly good people who mess up sometimes but really do try and do good and be kind etc. I hold no illusions that Christians are in some way better or more moral than people like this. I simply think that having faith compels us towards further good works and if it isn't doing then we're not taking faith seriously - that doesn't in any way denigrate the good done by non Christians, only challenges the faithful to hold to their beliefs and always be looking to developing those things as much as we can.

I do think God appreciates those who try to live well and generously. The Bible is full of that kind of narrative, and Jesus explicitly berates the Pharisees for their pretence in these things. But it also recognised that we mess up - sometimes spectacularly - and tells us that God loves us more than we can imagine and offers us forgiveness for those mess ups.

I don't believe in the traditional doctrine of hell as eternal torment. I don't believe it to be in any way a biblical doctrine.

When I think of people like you, I never think you are condemned to hell. I think that I see God's image working strongly in you as I see the goodness and the kindness, and I'm always so heartened to see people living that way.

But I think there is more, and it is something that is liberating and beautiful, and matters even more than good deeds.

Hope you get some ok sleep!

• I think that God offers us a choice, because God is a God of love who doesn't want us to be forced to worship against our wills or to spend eternity with someone we don't want to be with. God is like the best of spouses; giving unconditional love and unconditional freedom. So heaven is the choice we make to be with God, rather than something earned by good works. God is more careful of our autonomy than to make us do things against our will...

Twofalls, what does it matter what OP or MadHair think about you? Why not live your life and believe what you like - be happy.

Twofalls, I agree with madhairday that we are certainly not judging you in any way. God offers everyone free forgiveness for all our failures and mess-ups, and I'd rather spend eternity with a God who loves us that much, than spend it without God.

And of course, it doesn't matter at all what we think of you, and you sound great anyway!

But God doesn't want us to spend our whole lives worrying if we have been good enough for heaven. He knows we will always mess up, so he offers us a free pass, if you like. And then of course it's up to us to live the best life we can.

We can't be perfect, but that's fine, because we don't have to be. We just need to recognise we can't do it all ourselves.

Thanks Op and Madhair. I appreciate the thought that has gone into your answers. Whilst I am an atheist I can respect your beliefs and recognise you get strength from your faith.

Launch, I really don't care what they think of me (in the nicest possible way), I was posing a question that was all.

Just want to say thanks, twofalls, for your very polite and respectful engaging with us. You sound lovely

Hope you got sleep in the end, last night!

My sister is an evangelical christian and it has driven a wedge between us tbh. To me she appears brainwashed and she is certainly not the same sister she was. I feel they took advantage of her when she was vulnerable pretty much like a cult. Have your family relationships altered? What made you decide it was right for you? Were you at a difficult point in your life? If you left tomorrow do you think you would be ostracised?

I know from the experiences of friends who have left the church I belong to that, no, I would not be ostracised if I left. Some people who leave choose to leave decisively and they don't keep in touch. Other people are still good friends and we meet regularly for coffee or whatever.

I became a Christian in my teens, not at a time of crisis, but I suppose at an age where we are working out who we want to be and what we think independently. None of my family were Christians, so it did feel like a big shift, but we are still close and talk most days. I think they thought it was a phase but after 35 years they probably accept it isn't! They know what I believe but we don't often talk about it in depth; they're not interested at all. My mum in particular thinks church takes up too much of my time and attention, though in reality it's just a few hours a week.

I'm not sure there was one thing that convinced me this was right for me. I knew I wasn't the good person I wanted to be. I knew I couldn't change that. I felt strongly there was more to life than school and work and the daily routine, every day till we die. God was the gentle, persuasive, powerful answer to my doubts and questions. I didn't choose him so much as he found me.

Why did Jesus have to die to atone for our sins? If god is all powerful, he makes the rules. He could've just said, right folks, I'm changing the pass mark. From now on don't worry about sacrificing lambs and cleaning mildewed leather in the approved fashion: as long as I think you're sorry for the bad stuff you've done and are making a decent effort to live kindly and believe in me, you're in. That's it. Carry on.

Why did he have to add: the only reason I can do this is because I let my darling son suffer and die a hideous painful slow death, so you'd better remember that and be jolly grateful.

What has that got to do with it? It reminds me of the mad painter chap chopping off his ear to impress his girlfriend. I can imagine her thinking, "Well...that's a selfless gesture Vincent made. But he could've just brought me home a bunch of sunflowers or something. I hope he's not going to keep going on about chopping his ear off for the rest of our relationship and saying it proves how much he loves me and using it as a reason to stop me leaving".

yes, that was kind of my question- I grew up in quite an evangelical church and it was always presented to me as a kind of law of nature 'the wages of sin is death" and the obvious answer to this is the death of a person who has committed no sin- I mean, why? this was one of the reasons I stopped beleiving, I just thought if god set the whole thing up. why set it up that way?

I've read the qs and as about homosexuality. This is always a massive sticking point for me, one I can't get over.

So the Bible says that homosexual acts are sinful but heterosexual acts are not? That means that gay people have to forego something that straight people do not -sex. How can that be fair, loving or just? All the other things he bible cautions against are (usually) choices - gossip, greed, murder, whatevee. Sexuality is not a choice.

Oh yes, and it probably also means that gay people are precluded from xouple relationships unless thy are chaste relationships, and most people dont want that (understandably)

I believe God can heal people if he chooses. But he usually chooses to do this via medical means

How do you set that against the fact that medical advances and the ability to heal people are relatively new things? What of the 1800 years previously when people died often of things that today can be cured or prevented? Could He just not be bothered until then, or actually, are advances in science down to humans and their efforts?

Ohnothanks asked

So the Bible says that homosexual acts are sinful but heterosexual acts are not? That means that gay people have to forego something that straight people do not -sex. How can that be fair, loving or just?

God doesn't say that. He says that sex is for marriage (and that means one woman and one man marriage). Homosexual sex is no worse than heterosexual sex outside marriage.

So for Christians, straight or gay, if they don't marry then God would intend them to be single and celibate.

Powershowerforanhour. I'm not sure I can explain God's thinking on this, since I'm not God. What I can say is that God is unchanging. So if he started off with a perfect standard for us to meet, he can't change that to a middling, good-enough standard, because that would be changing his nature, which is that he is perfectly holy. So he can't just say, oh don't worry, I'll pretend not to notice all your sins, because that isn't in his holy nature.

What I can't answer is why he chose his son to die for us. I understand that Jesus had to be God for the atonement to work. An ordinary man wouldn't have been able to pay that price or overcome death afterwards. But why his son? I don't know. I'm happy to trust God that he did the best and wisest thing, even if it doesn't look that way always from where I'm standing.

insieme, I doubt you've heard of her since she's an American, but Barbara Brown Taylor is my all time favorite preacher. Here's one of her sermons:

She has a very clear style and has a way of cutting to the heart of scripture. I greatly recommend her books, particularly Bread of Angels.

barbarabrowntaylor.com/barbara-brown-taylor/books/

Why did Jesus have to die to atone for our sins?

It's a good and important question and one that can't easily be answered with a 'this is the black and white answer reply.'

There are so many facets to what the atonement is and what Jesus achieved on the cross. One of the most crucial and encouraging ones for me was Jesus' pure empathy with all human suffering in his act of suffering. Unlike other gods, this God joined in with the less of humanity and became one of us. And in the cross, he knew the most hideous of personal suffering - Christians believe that in taking the weight of sin he took the weight of all human suffering, which is just unimaginable.
So there is the incarnation - a God not far off but in the dust with us.

Another huge aspect is Jesus' resurrection. The cross wasn't simply about dying for sins but about glorious victory over death, so we know that death doesn't need to be the final answer and is conquered by the love of God. Christianity would be a very pale imitation of religion if there was no resurrection at the heart.

Then the atonement. Like Insieme says, God is unchanging and utterly holy, therefore can't be reconciled to us within the mess we all make. So God decided to do something about that, because he loves us so completely and longed for the possibility of reconciliation. So in the mystery of Jesus, he sent his son and made his own sacrifice in human form.

I do realise this doesn't answer your question sufficiently. You want to know why God couldn't just change the rules and say 'hey, it's chill, I'll just let humankind be reconciled to me by saying they can be because I can do that because All Powerful. But I wonder if that would somehow devalue the strength of his love for us, and also our choice to be reconciled to God. As it is, God's love has proved itself to be stronger than death and also in the depths of our suffering, and thus gives a more profound reflection of who he is and who we are.

Jesus death was a voluntary act of surrender, sacrifice and staggering, outrageous love, which has captured millions and millions through history, transformed lives and brought hope and profound peace again and again, soothing the most wild and rugged places in us. Something in that mystery of what happened on the cross has resonated and captivated and changed so many. I don't think there could be a full understanding of it, because God just doesn't work like that. We can't pocket him and understand him. He's wild and untamed, as CS Lewis would say.

Apologies for stream of consciousness - I'm say on a train writing this!

And sorry re typos too...