Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle

Thank you, ScrollingLeaves.

As always, so unbalanced in the effects on individuals as categorised by sex.

Men don't like hearing the word 'no'/being laughed at; women don't like being beaten up/raped/killed.

And women are the ones who need to reframe their trauma?

I know Robin isn't able to say what a woman is. (See the OP in this thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546679-maya-and-robin-on-what-is-a-woman-personnel-today )

Is Robin able to say what 'trans' is? I thought it was 'if you are male, declaring that you are a person who is in some way akin to a female person but obviously not female by sex - that's not only impossible but also 'too complicated' - but adopts certain characteristics that many, but by no means all, female people also demonstrate, and it's entirely down to the individual as to which female people's characteristics they cite as the relevant criteria for being that category of person, and relies heavily on signifiers relating to physical appearance' (and vice versa for trans men).

In any case it's the declaration that means you are trans, so making the declaration IS being trans.
Or are there further criteria?

I guess we'll never know.

I did hear of one somewhere. I am so sorry I can’t think where for this thread. The transman seemed to be in the home after transitioning but then ‘his’ husband would abuse ‘him’ physically as he reacted to ‘him’ as to a man he was annoyed with.

Has the spousal consent thing ever gone the other way? Has there been any man whose wife has transitioned and left the marriage?

Didn’t Graham’s wife tell one of the tabloids he’s putting it on?

The whole “sex is complicated” is so yawn-inducing and trite. Can’t TRAs just quietly move on from that and accept it’s never going to wash? You can’t gaslight the entire world into believing the binary sex of the entire world they see around them every waking hour or every day they’ve been alive. Just give it a rest Robin.

How outrageous that the opportunity for an annulment was lost. That would mean a lot to some women as a legal validation of their experience of having lived on the basis of someone else’s lie.

After a birth certificate with a new sex on it is an annulment of the facts of a birth.

This is an interesting point.

An amendment in the GRR for spousal consent was voted down. The spousal consent requirement was to allow wives of transitioning partners the time to have a marriage annulled before their husband became a legal ‘woman’ and they ended up in a ‘lesbian’ relationship without their consent.

It was widely mislabelled by the activists as ‘spousal veto’ to imply that it allowed a wife to block a GRC. It didn’t, it just gave some regard to the requirements of the wife who had just had her life turned upside down.

The Women & Equalities Select Committee (led by and mostly consisting of trans activists) also argued strongly against any spousal consent clause in the UK GRA reform consultation where they also strongly recommended self id.

So it seems that RMW is a now a definite supporter of actual spousal veto (not just consent) - what a turn up for the books!

If sex is not binary, then how is it that men all seems to 'transition' to become the other sex?

It's quite a mystery. What we need is Scooby Doo on it.

nilsmousehammer · Yesterday 20:57

If a woman has been demonstratively harmed to the point of proper satisfaction of their being actual, acceptable harm by objective standards and evidence, and if conviction is prosecuted successfully, and gets through court to a sentence, and then becomes public knowledge - then the woman the perp harmed is allowed to be vindicated instead of vilified as alleging and/or transphobic. (Which of course she will have been to this point.)

And then male people will hand down their decree on whether or not the perp's self ID is ok or not.

Not that different to the days when you tied up and threw a woman into the water and if she drowned you knew she was innocent.

How true this is!

Ah I knew it!

This was earlier in the session. Maya had a fit of the giggles. See below. Apparently she'd read the below, (or similar)

I've seen Robin do that whole "it's complicated" thing a few times now. It must be quite a revenue generator. Make everyone nervous and confused, charge them a lot to tell them a load of tosh.

What a ridiculous situation.

If Robin isn't sure what sex they are, then how could they know if they were trans? Isn't 'being one sex but another gender (?)' supposedly the definition? Robin wouldn't be being dishonest when they say it's too complicated to be binary, would they?

I'm guessing it works like the witch trials.

If a woman has been demonstratively harmed to the point of proper satisfaction of their being actual, acceptable harm by objective standards and evidence, and if conviction is prosecuted successfully, and gets through court to a sentence, and then becomes public knowledge - then the woman the perp harmed is allowed to be vindicated instead of vilified as alleging and/or transphobic. (Which of course she will have been to this point.)

And then male people will hand down their decree on whether or not the perp's self ID is ok or not.

Not that different to the days when you tied up and threw a woman into the water and if she drowned you knew she was innocent.

Well after seeing that, it’s funny, RMW looks and sounds exactly as I had pictured RMW in my head (nightmares). It’s also weird how all the TRA are running from ‘believe people when they tell you who they are’ and ‘no one will pretend to be trans’, to ‘this isn’t really a transwoman, it’s a man pretending to be trans’. You know, the thing we were told would never happen. And If RMW believes men will pretend to be trans for nefarious reasons, as RMW has just stated, then could RMW explain exactly how women are supposed to tell who is pretending and who is a true and honest transwoman? @RobinMoiraWhite any hints?

Oooh, Maya! That's a death stare!

Oh this is pure delight - well worth a watch - Maya and Helen J sitting right behind RMW!

twitter.com/lorcaat/status/1620513214877544448?

God I talk of cock and a Labour circular from Keir Starmer appears in my inbox. I obviously left a spell in the cauldron.

I fear so! There appears there are limits!

Ah, the roosteress might have tipped the balance there.

Sounds pretty tame to me, given the circumstances. Doesn't 'Isla' know about looking in a mirror before leaving the house?

🐓 proceeded by lady

Well it was detailing a story about the Poor girls forced to undress in front of a grown man, a double rapist at that who is a transwoman.

They used the lovely photo is Isla in a skin tight pair of pink leggings. Had it been a top and a woman woman id have described them as small and pert, but not much to see. But as it was leggings i was rather surprised to see what i saw and may have inadvertently described it as a woman's appendage.

Oh no - I missed the Daily Record front page. Are you permitted to describe it to me using words, as obviously the image is verbotten?

It must just have been that someone hates the Daily Record then.