Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle

Was that in the video? Didn't catch that part. Personally what comes to mind watching Robin isn't "female" but rather something about grandmother and the wolf.

That said, I too was pleasantly surprised by the overall polite tone and by the relatively reasonable concessions. Maybe that just shows the level of batshit to which we've become habituated.

There is a detransitioner in Canada who is so broken, that they are applying to be humanely killed under Canada's new initiative.

Why should Robin's nascissism be more important than the humanity for the hundreds of thousands of people broken by this insane ideology?

Robin, by transitioning as an adult you have avoided osteoporosis, sterility and loss of sexual function. As a female you could go through menopause in your 20's, vaginally atrophy, and require a hysterectomy (not to mention less serious side effects such as 'male' patent baldness). No child should ever make such choices and it is not cruel to protect them until they are adults. That is why we will never give in.

Hold your hands up. Who said bundle 5 times in front of a mirror?

And yet over 40,000 detransitioners regret their blockers/hormones/surgery [and it rises every day].

As soon as 1 person regrets it, TRAs should be sitting back and saying to themselves 'What have we done'. And yet you plough on, representing women who just want spaces away from males, and stalking them on here correcting their words.

I care because I remember so very clearly how horrible a time it was for me. With the hindsight of half a century I might be permitted to know what the right choices for me would have been all those years ago.

But I agree that making the wrong choices would be just as bad.

Im not medically qualified but those that are tell me that some young people know themselves well enough to make that choice. I believe I would have been one of those.

So to close off that choice would, in my view, be very cruel.

But every young person contemplating such a choice should have the best assistance available, given the consequences.

Oh dear.. I missed that.

Sadly, that is only true for some people it seems who have told this individual. I have never yet seen someone answer the question of how do they know that women are not lying to them them women keep assuring them they look female.

That in itself must be a very hard thing to live with. Knowing that there is a very high probability that people are lying to you
so much.

It really is like a collective face blindness, isn't it? Longer hair plus skirt equals female.

"while I look female..." This sort of unrealistic assertion is quite common among TRAs. But if it were actually true, how would anyone know who they are for the purposes of marginalisation and discrimination?

Meanwhile, the increasingly irrelevant BBC Women's Hour is talking about the important issue of...crocheting!

True. I suppose I was talking hypothetically, I know they don’t really care.

It does amaze me that so many people are being told and presented with evidence that this is actively harmful to children and vulnerable people.

In a normal world most people would stop and consider that and even if they are not 100% convinced, at least not argue against preventative measures to keep children safe.

Why would anyone not prioritise prevention if even a small risk of harm to children?

Exactly this. Stonewall has directly influence organisations that employ something like half the UK workforce (I can’t remember their exact claim but it was significant) and indirectly affected thousands more with moves like ensuring that the NHS procurement process demands Stonewall style policies in prospective suppliers.

All of these organisations have been persuaded to ignore the provisions in the law that makes single sex spaces lawful and with the EA arguably a right that we can expect but this has been done by stealth and not with the agreement of the majority.

This has enabled them to argue that the GRC is another ‘small step’. A similar argument might be that as the police only manage to prosecute 1% of all rapes, we may as well decriminalise rape as it ‘won’t make much difference’.

My lightbulb moment a couple of years back: yes, they are in our spaces. Because NOBODY FUCKING ASKED US IF WE MINDED. It didn't even occur to them to do so.

How do they know that these children are making the right decision that will last a lifetime?

Why do you think they care?

Robin spoke at the end about the awfulness of puberty for trans people and how stopping puberty would have enabled Robin to have a feminised voice. This is a classic example of why trans activists should never be allowed to influence health care and treatment of children. Like so many activists, Robin sees this from a personal perspective. They have no insight / knowledge of children and adolescence and think that some children avoiding puberty is a good thing.

Many advocates for sterilising children early puberty blockers did not themselves transition until well into adulthood or even middle age. Many had a full life with wife and children, a successful career and a healthy body.

Some like Rachel Levine say that they wouldn’t be without their children yet they encourage children and young people to take action based on youthful feelings which will prevent them having children, severely limit their dating pool and therefore chance of a long term relationship, and create an unhealthy body forever.

How do they know that these children are making the right decision that will last a lifetime?

This is spot on MrsO.

Mature males have shaped the youth treatment plans and often from their very sexist point of view. There is a complete disconnect from the reality that while they, as male adults, made the choices they did and can look back with regret, they have now forced through policies and guidance that locks others into decisions that may not be right for them.

All because of their hindsight, whether that is an accurate hindsight or revisionist.

I doubt that this barrister would ever acknowledge that without that ‘male’ voice they would be in the position of influence they are now. I also question whether their hobbies would be their hobbies. spitfires isn’t it? Are many females welcomed into that niche for long?

And so, from this ultimate mature male perspective, they are discussing adolescent treatment plans.

Robin spoke at the end about the awfulness of puberty for trans people and how stopping puberty would have enabled Robin to have a feminised voice. This is a classic example of why trans activists should never be allowed to influence health care and treatment of children. Like so many activists, Robin sees this from a personal perspective. They have no insight / knowledge of children and adolescence and think that some children avoiding puberty is a good thing.

This is why the NHS / the DfE are so dangerous having allowed trans activists to influence practice. It's why safeguarding children is being systematically eroded - the special trans treatment in the DBS, drag queens for children, the focus on porn in SRE etc. Not saying RMW has advocated for the latter - just pointing out how adults with an agenda have been given an influence that works against the needs of children.

Something which is really bugging me about these debates on the GRR is that we keep being told that it won't make much difference. It's just admin. Transwomen are already in women's spaces, prisons, sports without a GRC. The problem is that this is true. However the reason it's the case is that Stonewall have been quietly going around capturing the NHS, the prison service, the BBC etc for years, telling gullible companies desperate to be inclusive that allowing men in women's toilets will make them look fantastic, even though this isn't actually the law, ensuring that passing this will not actually make much practical difference - but I have no doubt their motive is that when the pushback occurs and women start noticing just how much their rights have been eroded, it will be too late because there will be lots of men with 'female ' on their birth certificate and we can do nothing about it

That voice of power wasn’t it?

I remember Robin trying to convince us they meant ‘power’ as in just one way ‘being able to project one’s voice’ while ignoring the very fact that their male voice held more power because they were male in both the loudness of delivery. While also the fact that male voices in this sexist society carry the power of authority, conscious or subconsciously.

Yes. We know why a male barrister will never have their voice changed. We know.

GB News was fantastic tonight, they also had Dennis Kavanagh talking about conversion therapy and For Women Scotland on the GRR. These things should be being properly debated on the BBC and C4, but instead we get a load of dismissive, be kind, biased waffle...

clips of above debates are also on Twitter if anyone wants to see them.

This is why I love Free Speech Nation.

And fair play to RMW for debating, it's rare to see a serious, polite debate like this, it's what we should have had years ago.

And Sarah, of course was brilliant.

All those people who take the piss out of GB News, shame none of them will ever watch, compare and contrast with that crap on the BBC this morning. And I'm an ex BBC employee.

It's nice to have such a detailed and nuanced discussion. You wouldn't get that much time and those speakers on the BBC or any other channel I can think of. I'm a little leery of GB News but content like that will change my mind.

As usual SP is superb. I think RMW is by far and away the most capable debater the Genderists have and actually seems to take the trouble to understand the arguments we are making.

That's not to say I agree with anything she says but if we could have discussions like this all the time I would feel more positive about finding solutions that meet everyone's needs (and no, I don't mean compromising women's rights to do that).

😘