Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle

Surely the risk assessment has already been done. And that’s why men’s and women’s prisons are separate.

oldwomanwhoruns · Today 19:29
Oh, and the mention (twice) of the Risk Assessments that are carried out when moving men into the female prison estate. It has been explained to us that the Risk Assessment Tools available for use are designed for Female prisoners. These tools (presumably a computer system?? I'm just guessing) are not appropriate for use on men. Therefore, these men have not been properly risk assessed, because there is no tool available to do this.

Thank you for that reminder. You are right. They are assessed not as men but as women, by a system based on female crimes and offending rates.

Someone explained that recently in an article I think but I don’t remember where. KPSS? Sonia Sodha?

Good interview.

But instead of building for themselves they have chosen the route of appropriating what others built, and the social control and authoritarianism they need to keep it.

Instead of building for themselves they have chosen to tear down others' buildings.

It really is Maoist. The West's Cultural Revolution.

What really got me was the um, explanation* about the Equal Treatment Bench Book.
We all know that it is a terrible document, written by transactivists.
It needs to be put right, not referred to deferently.

Oh, and the mention (twice) of the Risk Assessments that are carried out when moving men into the female prison estate. It has been explained to us that the Risk Assessment Tools available for use are designed for Female prisoners. These tools (presumably a computer system?? I'm just guessing) are not appropriate for use on men. Therefore, these men have not been properly risk assessed, because there is no tool available to do this.

👏👏

This is the tradegy of gender ideology. So many ways they could make life better for the gender non-confirming, whether that be challenging regressive gender roles by celebrating the huge variety of ways male-born people can be men and female-born people can be women, or lobbying for third spaces, or even the acceptance of sexual cross dressing as a glamorous and edgy but fundamentally mainstream kink that is only a problem if taken to the point that it starts to mess up your relationships with loved ones.

But instead of building for themselves they have chosen the route of appropriating what others built, and the social control and authoritarianism they need to keep it.

Heartbreaking.

I'm not sure but wondering is it the Edinburgh rape crisis place where the man got the for women only job without having a GRC?

I mean Robin used that fact as some proof of "alls good" point when in fact it's the bloody opposite.

So sick of this shit.

RMW claims to have two rape crisis centres as clients, one in Sussex, one in Edinburgh. I know about Sussex (if that's Sussex Survivors Network), anyone know about the Edinburgh one? Is that an old case or ongoing?

Yes indeed. I felt for her at that moment.

Ditto.

I've just logged on to find that a couple of my posts have been deleted - when I'm quite careful to stay within the guidelines.

But I must say, when I watched this, I suffered high levels of cognitive dissonance, and a resentment of mansplaining.

Shall.I.Explain.Very.Carefully.How.The.Other.Speaker.Is.Wrong.While.Not.Answering.Whether.I.Called.Women.Mad.

GG UK are way ahead of the TRAs then. They responded to another poster that "Both cis and trans girls and young women are entitled to use girls’/women’s accommodation or changing facilities".

The lovely Sall Grover made the pithy point on Twitter that if tw really were women, they would immediately go to the female estate in prison.

I always come back to the thought that if transwomen really knew what it was like to be a woman, they wouldn’t be campaigning to have access to our spaces. It just highlights even more how they’re not biological women

Here's another example of self interested adults influencing children. Gendered Intelligence (which gets 30% of their income from education), in addition to their lucrative "training" sessions for children in schools has a "service" where they will send in an adult to "mentor" a child of any age in an educational setting. The adult has unidentified "professional skills" in working with "young persons"
There's no mention of safeguarding, confidentiality, consent, parental permission / involvement, age appropriateness, boundaries or any of the normal aspects of safeguarding that need when you work with children and as usual, the word child is absent. Massive red flags.
The scope of what they want to talk with children of any age is unbelievably wide and crosses many so boundaries:

genderedintelligence.co.uk/professionals/mentoring.htm

They're a campaigning adult group that have relentlessly targeted children. It's hard to argue with OldCrone upthread when she points out that:

"Transactivism recruits children as a human shield to make ordinary people sympathetic to males with a fetish".

‘No trans person would say that an offender should not be properly dealt with, no trans person would say that’

(approx 32.00)

erm, Robin, have you met Action for Trans Health?

That's how I knew Robin didn't pipe up with the spiteful aside at Allison's tribunal.

😂

Oh, hello Robin!

those that are tell me that some young people know themselves well enough to make that choice. I believe I would have been one of those.

Trouble is, sometimes those medically qualified people have got it disastrously wrong. And they've discounted or failed to conduct the follow ups that would have warned them how often they were getting it wrong. At present even the medically qualified don't reliably know which young people can make that choice.

Yes there may be a minority of kids who really know who they are, who will grow up to want transition whatever any one else says or does. And I get you're probably one of them. But most of us can be influenced to some extent about our body image and how it fits our gender identity. We might change our minds later about gender identity but then it's too late. And right now we're seeing the effects of a big change in social influences, many kids are deciding they are trans or gender fluid or in the wrong body because of self image and social influence, and not some permanent unshakable conviction like yours. And we only know for sure it's permanent if it doesn't change.

You have hindsight to tell you that you should have transitioned younger, other transitioners have hindsight to say they shouldn't have transitioned so young or at all. And now they are in a much worse situation than you are. So what should foresight do?

If we had a way to know for sure which kids would not change their minds, that would help. If we had a way to reverse a wrong decision, that would help. But we don't have those, and we don't have a time machine. The safest decision for young people is still - don't.

Leafstamp · Today 11:59
There is nothing that could convince me that putting children on puberty blockers for reasons relating to so called 'gender identity' is an appropriate treatment.

My view is that people who think there is such thing as a 'wrong puberty', which can and should be treated with puberty blockers are deluded and a danger to children.

I agree, and think not only is too little known about the physical effects, but also the effects on mental maturity.

Possibly, for example, RMW might not have been so capable of becoming a barrister had they had their puberty blocked. Disregarding the advantages in his career that may have been conferred on them by by their being a man at the outset ( if this was before they were a transwoman), maybe a mature mind is an important aspect.

Dogs that are castrated before they have fully matured at about a year old are thought generally disadvantaged physically and mentally by experts who have researched the field. (n b this is not necessarily known by vets.)

I noted several references to the wonderful "system" that the MoJ has for allocating dangerous men who think they're women into the women's estate. This is yet another shadowy system where very self interested men get to pronounce on which of rapists / paedophiles /murderers etc get to serve their prison sentence harassing vulnerable women. It's evidently a lucrative gravy train for unknown individuals with likely dubious qualifications and a lack of care for women's safety.
I always contrast the elevation of these men over the needs of pregnant women, women with disabilities and older women in the prison system. I bet they don't get special meetings to discuss their individual needs.

That said, I too was pleasantly surprised by the overall polite tone and by the relatively reasonable concessions. Maybe that just shows the level of batshit to which we've become habituated.

I must say I didn’t notice any concessions, only a bit of misdirection on things like risk assessments in prisons (which clearly are not fit for the job as the bar is so low, being a rapist or murderer does not immediately risk assess that male as not being suitable to be placed with vulnerable women) and a refusal to retract the snidey remarks to Sarah on a previous occasion about women with our views ‘being mad’.

They say it's out of concern for children, but in reality it's because transsexual children are essential to TRAs in the interests of pushing the narrative that transsexualism isn't a sexual fetish.

This is how one American transactivist, Autumn Sandeen, put it some years ago, in a video which was subsequently deleted once it became obvious they were saying the quiet bits out loud.

“I’ve always said there are two groups that are going to make change in transgender legislation and the “gender identity and expression” related language in legislation. It’s going to be trans youth because … they demystify it and take the sex right out of the trans experience.”

mirandayardley.com/en/this-is-an-all-out-political-war-the-gender-recognition-act-and-beyond/

Countering that we have Nick Timothy writing in today's Telegraph:

Autogynephilia, the feeling of sexual arousal some men feel as they pretend to be women, is according to some researchers behind many or even most cases of gender dysphoria among those born as men.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/22/britain-becoming-sick-trans-debate-facts-can-cure/

If you want your sexual fetish to be seen as not a sexual fetish, it's good to convince the public that it's identical to a condition which is seen in young children and teenage girls. Transactivism recruits children as a human shield to make ordinary people sympathetic to males with a fetish. As more people are affected via their own children or other young relatives the more likely they are to support the TRA cause.

I was a first time mum in 2004. GRA from memory was to make life easier for a very very small number of troubled people. The time where pride was being celebrated, live and let live etc etc. I do remember my late fil who was a Labour die hard ranting and raving a lot and shouting at 'Mrs Blair and Mrs Brown' during the Labour years. We would consider him an old dinosaur who needed to get with the times. But he knew what he was talking about. We were too busy bring kind and accommodating.

It just appeared out of nowhere. A friend immediately left his wife and two young sons and started dating men wearing women's clothing. Maybe he already was doing this in secret. His father was a bullying vicar. His poor wife was just a cover for his homosexuality.

Why is RMW, along with all other TRAs, so determined that children who think that they are trans should be denied the advantages that RMW has had? Why are they determined to deny these children the opportunity to explore their sexuality, to eventually have a sex life, to have children of their own, to have whole and healthy bodies. Why are they so determined that male children should not get the social advantages that male socialisation gave them? Why are they so determined to ensure that children who believe they are trans should be unable to get cross-sex surgery as adults? Why are they so determined to ensure that these children's brains do not have the opportunity to fully mature? Why are they so determined that these children be subjected to poorly-researched medical procedures? Would they accept that for themselves? Do the children they claim to be fighting for deserve worse medical care than everybody else?