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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle

814 replies

DerekFaker · 22/01/2023 22:40

About the Scottish gender recognition bill

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SinnerBoy · 21/02/2023 15:41

So, RMW says them is the country's only trans rights lawyer. I wonder why the Bar Association hasn't reprimanded they for consistently misrepresenting the Equalities Act of 2010? After all, them has done so many times.

RichardBarrister · 21/02/2023 15:23

DrBlackbird · 21/02/2023 11:06

@RichardBarrister In what way was Maya’s fit of giggles disrespectful?

I am not saying MF was disrespectful. It is evident that RMW clearly felt it was disrespectful and outraged that MF laughed in a ‘how dare they?’ kind of way. Otherwise, why comment in a national newspaper?

Ah yes, I see what you mean.

RMWs reference to it is totally disingenuous.

Princessglittery · 21/02/2023 12:56

The clip RMW references without any context, which is how most people will view it, could be interpreted as being disrespectful or unprofessional behaviour in a Government Committee whilst panel members were giving evidence.

The clip can be used anyway TRAs want to use it - not right but it’s what happens.

DrBlackbird · 21/02/2023 11:06

@RichardBarrister In what way was Maya’s fit of giggles disrespectful?

I am not saying MF was disrespectful. It is evident that RMW clearly felt it was disrespectful and outraged that MF laughed in a ‘how dare they?’ kind of way. Otherwise, why comment in a national newspaper?

DrBlackbird · 21/02/2023 11:01

I think the quote is actually a paraphrase of Margaret Atwood, not GG.

I took it to mean that RMW is losing it over women laughing, in a context where women’s rights to spaces which are guaranteed to be free of male violence, are being debated.

Yes, that’s what I meant @EndlessTea That clip of MF laughing happened before the tragic and senseless death of Brianna Ghey. Yet was somehow seen as relevant by RMW. How? Disingenuous at best. Malevolent and misogynistic at worst.

@Ameanstreakamilewide I am coming depressingly to the same conclusion and fear so much for my wonderful DD.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 21/02/2023 10:01

GG said 'women have very little idea how much men hate them', and the older i get, the more i realise she was absolutely right.

Florissant · 21/02/2023 07:40

I think the quote is actually a paraphrase of Margaret Atwood, not GG.

You are correct.

EndlessTea · 20/02/2023 23:05

RichardBarrister · 20/02/2023 23:00

Reminded me of Germaine Greer (?) saying men fear women laughing at them. Women fear men killing them.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/brianna-ghey-trans-girl-stabbed-death-b2281353.html

I’m intrigued by your Germaine Greer reference here though, are you referring to Maya laughing at RMW or linking it to Brianna Ghey?

I think the quote is actually a paraphrase of Margaret Atwood, not GG.

I took it to mean that RMW is losing it over women laughing, in a context where women’s rights to spaces which are guaranteed to be free of male violence, are being debated.

RichardBarrister · 20/02/2023 23:00

Reminded me of Germaine Greer (?) saying men fear women laughing at them. Women fear men killing them.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/brianna-ghey-trans-girl-stabbed-death-b2281353.html

I’m intrigued by your Germaine Greer reference here though, are you referring to Maya laughing at RMW or linking it to Brianna Ghey?

EndlessTea · 20/02/2023 22:58

RichardBarrister · 20/02/2023 22:53

In what way was Maya’s fit of giggles disrespectful?

RMW was claiming that ‘[biological] sex is not simple… it is not straightforward ’ in a fact free attempt to undermine the pc of Sex in the Equality Act to the detriment of women.

Maya whispered “Yes it is” to Helen Joyce and then they laughed.

RMW trying to make out that they were doing any more than that is inaccurate and unjustified. Unsurprising though.

That’s how it goes, RMW says something ridiculous, people giggle, then “you’re only laughing coz I is tranz”.

No you said something stupid mate.

RichardBarrister · 20/02/2023 22:53

DrBlackbird · 20/02/2023 20:40

Maya’s fit of giggles apparently was highly disrespectful. Mentioned in this article. Reminded me of Germaine Greer (?) saying men fear women laughing at them. Women fear men killing them.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/brianna-ghey-trans-girl-stabbed-death-b2281353.html

In what way was Maya’s fit of giggles disrespectful?

RMW was claiming that ‘[biological] sex is not simple… it is not straightforward ’ in a fact free attempt to undermine the pc of Sex in the Equality Act to the detriment of women.

Maya whispered “Yes it is” to Helen Joyce and then they laughed.

RMW trying to make out that they were doing any more than that is inaccurate and unjustified. Unsurprising though.

EndlessTea · 20/02/2023 22:26

so over the top:

shock at her death has rippled through the LGBT+ community.

this kind of tragedy was waiting to happen.

stoke “debate” over trans people’s lives

something I, as Britain’s only trans discrimination barrister, have to cope with every day.

pulling faces, giggling and laughing - Imagine if the comparable treatment had been meted out

trans people are never quite equal.

Nothing, but nothing compares with the toxicity of social media. I have recently been described online as the “fat white bloke in the awful wig pretending to be a woman”.

recently assaulted on a night out with friends, just for being trans.

We know where dehumanising tactics take us, who uses them and has used them historically. It is used in war, such as the Russian rhetoric about Ukranians. When an “other” is no longer regarded as “human”, then it is easier to kill them or justify shelling civilian homes or facilities.

Trans people experience this, too. We face journalists and politicians playing the game of getting the word “trans” and “paedophile” or “child-molester” in the same sentence to create an impression.

The parallels with the treatment of gay people during the time of section 28 are stark – and hard to bear.

Be in no doubt: if you indulge in these activities you are putting real people at risk.

It is time for some real leadership.

remove people like Nikki da Costa, who has warned against “letting Stonewall dictate trans policies, even where those undermine women’s rights or where they may cause harm to gender distressed children”, from the centre of power

Will Sunak call out the false narratives that tell us that allowing trans people to live decently is a threat to the safety of women and girls? To find an accommodation with the Scottish GRR? To find parliamentary time, in the remainder of this session, to get a cross-party supported, full ban on conversion therapy?

In that case, regardless of whether it was linked to the fact she was trans, Brianna’s terrible and tragic death could – though it will bring scant relief to her family and friends – be a turning point.

false narratives and political expediency count more than a vulnerable minority.

DrBlackbird · 20/02/2023 22:02

EndlessTea · 20/02/2023 20:57

God. What a load of whiney boringness of made up shite that article is Blackbird

Also inflaming the tensions further IMO with the hyperbole.

EndlessTea · 20/02/2023 20:57

God. What a load of whiney boringness of made up shite that article is Blackbird

DrBlackbird · 20/02/2023 20:40

Boiledbeetle · 02/02/2023 01:23

This was earlier in the session. Maya had a fit of the giggles. See below. Apparently she'd read the below, (or similar)

Maya’s fit of giggles apparently was highly disrespectful. Mentioned in this article. Reminded me of Germaine Greer (?) saying men fear women laughing at them. Women fear men killing them.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/brianna-ghey-trans-girl-stabbed-death-b2281353.html

Boiledbeetle · 19/02/2023 21:06

I don't even have to risk saying something that might get me deleted. AGAIN! Just look on twitter.

People are not happy with RMW. Plus quite a few tweet responses to RMWs last few tweets mention RMW and mumsnet.

None of them are by me though. 🤐

Tallisker · 19/02/2023 21:00

We had the measure of this person a long time ago. It gives me no satisfaction to say I told you so. People should listen to women.

Boiledbeetle · 19/02/2023 20:56

Not just Michael

Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle
Ameanstreakamilewide · 19/02/2023 20:38

RMW has also now defamed Dr Foran on Twitter.

"Once again a barrister accuses me (although at this point the misspelling of my name must be intentional) of endangering the lives of trans people. This is so deeply unprofessional, inappropriate, and bordering increasingly on defamatory."

SinnerBoy · 06/02/2023 18:31

Yes, he must feel terribly unsafe now, poor wee mite.

Boiledbeetle · 06/02/2023 17:22

I'm sorry, when did the Guardian become a transphobic newspaper? Has anyone let Owen know?

Purity spirals. A game of fun-fur for all the misguided, or uneducated.

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 06/02/2023 17:11

Ha! I’m not really following anyone, honest guv!

(is guv gender neutral?)

I actually went off to see what was happening re: The Guardian review of the Harry Potter game.

it’s not going well.

Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle
Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle
Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle
Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle
Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle
Boiledbeetle · 06/02/2023 17:00

@NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom more to the point what were you looking at on Twitter to find that?

Do I need to check who you are following again?

Boiledbeetle · 06/02/2023 16:58

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 06/02/2023 16:51

Poor old Sam Smith.
Even in his very bestest non-binary finery they just isn’t gendered correctly, not even by the specialist barrister who won at the landmark NB rights Jaguar LandRover tribunal.

Maybe it's a recent change and Robin just missed it?

Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle
NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 06/02/2023 16:51

Poor old Sam Smith.
Even in his very bestest non-binary finery they just isn’t gendered correctly, not even by the specialist barrister who won at the landmark NB rights Jaguar LandRover tribunal.

Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle