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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle

814 replies

DerekFaker · 22/01/2023 22:40

About the Scottish gender recognition bill

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35
Boiledbeetle · 27/01/2023 13:12

EdithStourton · 27/01/2023 13:10

Good luck, Sarah.
You were fab in that interview btw.

I'll just keep stirring my cauldron...

I've just added the toads tongues to mine, they apparently help with the flow of words.

EdithStourton · 27/01/2023 13:10

Good luck, Sarah.
You were fab in that interview btw.

I'll just keep stirring my cauldron...

JellySaurus · 27/01/2023 13:09

I know there is the fear of being in trouble for misgendering. But you know that bit in the equality law, that we never seem to be allowed to use. The bit, and I paraphrase, about being allowed to discriminate against a group of individuals if it's a legitimate means to a legitimate aim.

There is another bit in the equality law that we never seem to be allowed to use. The bit, and I shall also paraphrase, about both freedom of belief and of absence of belief being protected.

Nobody would consider prosecuting anyone who denied Jesus's divinity, or who wore shorts in areas were Orthodox Jews or Muslims live.

Our right to disbelieve the trans ideology and to refuse to lie is protected. Thanks to Maya. We must exercise this right and make it the norm, just as the TRAS have tried to make their disingenuous Be Kind the norm.

Boiledbeetle · 27/01/2023 12:39

@Spero I've been thinking more about your tweets.

I know there is the fear of being in trouble for misgendering. But you know that bit in the equality law, that we never seem to be allowed to use. The bit, and I paraphrase, about being allowed to discriminate against a group of individuals if it's a legitimate means to a legitimate aim.

well you aren't on tv to talk about one transwoman and then purposefully misgender him.

You are, and no pressure here Sarah, representing all of us women here. Look at how many posts have been deleted on this and the JKR v IW thread.

How in order for our posts to remain we've had to stop. Modify our speech. Talk in abstract terms rather than what we all know we are really talking about in order to make our point and keep a post standing.

In some respects we are having to use a completely different language to communicate as our every comment is monitored.

And yet someone on this thread had to you accused women of being mad, and had refused to clarify and ignores your further attempts to elicit a response. Basically called us witches and we've been quite happy for their words not to be deleted. That was a personal attack on us by someone who had just proclaimed to never make personal attacks.

Yet posters on here have had their posts deleted on here and other threads for correctly sexing an individual.

So, I think Sarah you should be loud and proud from now on in interviews. Directly using the right sex for the people who are being discussed or who are not the sex they claim to be. Surely this has to be a legitimate means to a legitimate aim? You are speaking not not just yourself but 1000s of other women.

and if the worst happens you know we will all help you with the gardening.

Boiled x

ScrollingLeaves · 27/01/2023 12:33

This is a petition to update the Equality Act to make clear that the characteristic ‘sex’ is biological sex.
⬇️

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243

MorvenOfMalvern · 27/01/2023 12:10

Well done Sarah.

This is such a significant shift. Because all of a sudden, to any sane ears and eyes, watching BBC news presenters debase themselves referring to Isla Bryson as she, is utterly cringy. And if that sounds and looks wrong, well then, why is it ever right to not just stick with the bins of the language and go for sex based pronouns.

turbonerd · 27/01/2023 12:05

RobinMoiraWhite · 24/01/2023 17:49

It’s a paradox for me. Through my working life I have tried to treat everyone properly, equally and fairly, no matter what their protected characteristic.

But the worst of you here treat trans people just as you would complain about men treating women historically.

A little bit of self-reflection and self-awareness goes a long way.

But I’m sure you will just keep stirring your cauldrons.

’Bye for now.

This made me laugh out loud.

In disbelief, but also it is insanely hilarious.
You Witches!!

Well, why, Thank you!

I’ll add it to my list of descriptors: bigot, fascist and witch.

Together with ms Sturgeon’s assertion that people who disagree are all sorts of phobic, misogynistic AND racist, I think we have a full house.

Will now read the rest of the thread in order.

Must add, I don’t really think most of the posters here are any of the above.
Except witches, it does have the feel of a rather lively coven. So I do take the accusation of cauldron-stirring as a compliment in a way.

Tallisker · 27/01/2023 11:20

Glad to see the link in that Twitter thread by Safe Schools Alliance to Pronouns Are Rohypnol by Barraker

I remember when it was posted on here and my visceral 'Yes!' Reaction to it.

Can't link on phone I'm afraid.

EndlessTea · 27/01/2023 10:37

Spero · 27/01/2023 07:57

Wish me luck! I have decided that it's important to use sex based pronouns when discussing why sex is important. Hopefully there will be further discussions on Saturday.

twitter.com/svphillimore/status/1618874108149895169?s=46&t=eoVwqgjLs_ZVjhWNTQnOOA

I remember when Venice Allan was asked why she used sex-based pronouns (with the thinly veiled accusation that it isn’t the #bekind thing to do).

Her reply was.

”It is politically essential”

Pithy, sound bitey and there is absolutely no further vaguely reasonable comeback to that. Maybe one for your Arsenal?

Good luck and do it do it do it! It is politically essential that you do!

Boiledbeetle · 27/01/2023 10:11

😍GO SARAH! WOMEN WILL NOT BE SILENCED OR CALLED MAD FOR SAYING THE TRUTH. NOT IN 2023.

Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle
SinnerBoy · 27/01/2023 10:08

Here she is, in their Law section:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/26/trans-woman-isla-bryson-found-guilty-rape-not-be-held-in-womens-prison-sturgeon

Isla Bryson, a transgender woman found guilty of raping two women before transitioning, has been moved from Scotland’s all-female Cornton Vale prison to a male facility after an intervention by Nicola Sturgeon.

The first minister told MSPs earlier on Thursday that Bryson would not be incarcerated in the women’s prison “either short term or long term”, after a report saying the offender had been transferred there on Tuesday prior to sentencing prompted outrage across the political and campaigning spectrum.

NotBadConsidering · 27/01/2023 10:05

Spero · 27/01/2023 07:57

Wish me luck! I have decided that it's important to use sex based pronouns when discussing why sex is important. Hopefully there will be further discussions on Saturday.

twitter.com/svphillimore/status/1618874108149895169?s=46&t=eoVwqgjLs_ZVjhWNTQnOOA

You have my unbridled support. I do this in real life. It’s madness that it’s even controversial to call a male “he”.

The Scottish rapist is my argument. I will never call him “she”. So why should I call any other male “she”? The only reason would be to make a judgement call on someone’s character. A “nice” male gets “she”, a borderline male gets “they” and a bad male gets “he”? Why bother? It’s probably transphobic to judge trans people like this and hell will freeze over before I call a rapist “he” so the whole idea can just get in the bin.

Incidentally I looked at the Guardian to see if they were reporting the Scottish rapist. The first article had “she”. The second didn’t. I think Libby Brooks has peaked🤣🤣.

CriticalCondition · 27/01/2023 10:03

Good luck Sarah! It's time.

Boiledbeetle · 27/01/2023 10:03

Sarah,

As it may have been a while, a quick primer

SHE IS A WOMAN HER SEX IS FEMALE

HE IS A MAN HIS SEX IS MALE

😉

ScrollingLeaves · 27/01/2023 10:01

Good luck. What you say is so true but you are brave to take this on.

Notaflippinclue · 27/01/2023 09:52

Free speech rules, the worms are turning - the world is listening

Boiledbeetle · 27/01/2023 09:50

Spero · 27/01/2023 07:57

Wish me luck! I have decided that it's important to use sex based pronouns when discussing why sex is important. Hopefully there will be further discussions on Saturday.

twitter.com/svphillimore/status/1618874108149895169?s=46&t=eoVwqgjLs_ZVjhWNTQnOOA

Good luck. It's 2023 our speech should not be policed. Women should not be silenced. Men are not and never can be women.

MissPollysFitDolly · 27/01/2023 09:39

Good luck Sarah, that's something we all need to start doing. Pronouns have always been sex based and aren't owned by anyone.

mrshoho · 27/01/2023 08:44

Brave of you Sarah. We are all behind you. Your powerful words will I'm sure help many to have the courage to do the same. Best of luck for Saturday! 💐

Helleofabore · 27/01/2023 08:33

Good luck Sarah!

MassiveWordSalad · 27/01/2023 08:23

Good luck @spero. Ovaries of steel!

DialSquare · 27/01/2023 08:23

No disagreement from me Sarah. We're taking back the power and there is fuck all anyone can do about it.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/01/2023 08:19

I couldn’t agree more Sarah. Best of luck.

Spero · 27/01/2023 07:57

Wish me luck! I have decided that it's important to use sex based pronouns when discussing why sex is important. Hopefully there will be further discussions on Saturday.

twitter.com/svphillimore/status/1618874108149895169?s=46&t=eoVwqgjLs_ZVjhWNTQnOOA

Boiledbeetle · 26/01/2023 14:38

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 26/01/2023 14:36

I do suspect that being made to feel bad is actually part of the reason some of our male visitors come here. I suspect they don’t particularly enjoy it at the time but do later

I mean, ick right? But we’re all wired differently, that’s for sure

Aren't we just!