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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle

814 replies

DerekFaker · 22/01/2023 22:40

About the Scottish gender recognition bill

OP posts:
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35
Boiledbeetle · 28/01/2023 10:47

SinnerBoy · 28/01/2023 10:16

DialSquare · Yesterday 15:35

I like a multi use cauldron.

Ooh, hark at Flash Harriet! I bet you've got a personalised number plate, too!

😁

No but her wizard on the side did get her a new broomstick for Christmas with her initials on it. She does a special nose wiggle and they disappear. I noticed it the other day as she checked it into the broom cupboard.

Boiledbeetle · 28/01/2023 10:44

IcakethereforeIam · 28/01/2023 10:40

Right, I want my own dressing room. I want to be all three witches and uterus-haver MacBeth. I want to beat MacDuff. Divorce MacBeth and run off with Romeo. No, on second thoughts, Mercutio. Romeo's a wuss.

I'll be in my dressing room.

Speak to my agent.

Only if I get to have Malvolio in it with his cross gartering..wanders off pondering on which poster will play that part.

DialSquare · 28/01/2023 10:43

SinnerBoy · 28/01/2023 10:16

DialSquare · Yesterday 15:35

I like a multi use cauldron.

Ooh, hark at Flash Harriet! I bet you've got a personalised number plate, too!

😁

I'm not that flash!

IcakethereforeIam · 28/01/2023 10:40

Right, I want my own dressing room. I want to be all three witches and uterus-haver MacBeth. I want to beat MacDuff. Divorce MacBeth and run off with Romeo. No, on second thoughts, Mercutio. Romeo's a wuss.

I'll be in my dressing room.

Speak to my agent.

Boiledbeetle · 28/01/2023 10:34

IcakethereforeIam · 28/01/2023 10:10

Okay, the line where I say 'demand', I mean it's not really....I can't see my character saying that. How about

'Say "please"!'?

Robin's character could be changed to 'Miss Beth', or just 'Beth'.

😍

Anything for you cake after that last line in your post. Anything you ever demand of me is yours, just say please and it's yours.

Boiledbeetle · 28/01/2023 10:31

DialSquare · 28/01/2023 09:45

I wonder if RMW is still reading?

Im not sure Dial. What would you do if it was you? Lets imagine….

Wobbly screen effects resembling circa 1978 Dr Who

Should witches be allowed Cats that are tabbies?

Imagine you’d just been on Bad Evening Witches and had a debate with Helleofabore over should witches be allowed cats that are tabbies. You fundamentally disagreed with each other about the subject

And, nothing personal, imagine your point of view was entirely centred around how it affected you and your cat, as your cat was a beautiful tabby, but with not a single solitary piece of black fur on her. You know your cat makes no sense. You are a witch. A witch must have a black cat. One without the other and you are not a witch.. You are merely an itch!

Since getting her, not have only your spells gone awry, but the cat, as cute as she is, is also affecting all the other witches around you. Their spells are not quite hitting the mark. They are constantly finding your cat is ruining their lives, invading on their thoughts, ruining their work and, as cats will, invading their bloody safe witchy black cat only spaces.

Now Helleofabore was of the opinion that any decisions made on cat owning should be decided by the majority of witches and not the annoying itch with the wrong cat.

So after the debate you discover there is a thread on Witchnet on the Cats and Curses board. Helleofabore has been on and commented on some of the posters comments, who are it turns out 100% of the same opinion as Helleofabore (trust me it’s always the correct choice if you agree with her).

So… You know you have the superiority and are correct in your thinking over the rest of your Terven. And so you go on and say your piece. It’s an intelligent, non-rambling, post. You inform the witches of the fact that you would never do anything to hurt the other witches (despite the fact you can see that 87 of them are currently suffering with a really bad case of nonblackcatitis and are having conniptions).

The other witches then remind you of Bubbles, who you tried to once sneak in as a cat when we could all see perfectly well it was a chimpanzee. you tried to gaslight us for minutes.

You then flounce, and on your way out accuse us all of being Elves.

Would you never go back to the thread?

Or would you go and check to see if the other witches had taken your kind words on board and changed their mind about witches having Tabbies?

And get slowly worked up over each and every poster pointing out the error of your ways?

I reckon Robin hasn't been back personally!

SinnerBoy · 28/01/2023 10:16

DialSquare · Yesterday 15:35

I like a multi use cauldron.

Ooh, hark at Flash Harriet! I bet you've got a personalised number plate, too!

😁

IcakethereforeIam · 28/01/2023 10:10

Okay, the line where I say 'demand', I mean it's not really....I can't see my character saying that. How about

'Say "please"!'?

Robin's character could be changed to 'Miss Beth', or just 'Beth'.

DialSquare · 28/01/2023 09:45

I wonder if RMW is still reading?

EdithStourton · 28/01/2023 09:44

@Boiledbeetle
So you'll fit right in.
In real life I am a grumpy hag, so I'm off to a good start as a witch...

DialSquare · 28/01/2023 09:44

How dare you missheight me Boiled! I'm 4 foot 9 and 3 quarters actually.

Boiledbeetle · 28/01/2023 09:41

EdithStourton · 28/01/2023 09:20

Happy to be an understudy.
(User advisory: I cannot act)

I doubt any of us can, but some posters give it a decentish go most days, not that all of them are particularly convincing in the role they play. Some just don't get inside the characters head probably to work out what their characters motivation might be. They also do a really bad job as convincingly playing the character they portray as well.

I mean the last play @DialSquare played (it was the mumsnet panto) the giant. She's 4 foot 9 in real life.

seriously the 6 women, including @beastlyslumber , who's an actual giant at 8 foot 7, watching were not impressed. And as much as I love Dial, she is not a good character actor. She hadn't studied the role she was playing due to actual real life getting in the way, and so was entirely unconvincing..

She's not the only posterb on this thread whose acting skills are woefully lacking.

So you'll fit right in.

Boiledbeetle · 28/01/2023 09:32

DialSquare · 28/01/2023 09:23

I would have loved to have a part in the play but I've been using my cauldron for it's other use so I'm a bit slurred and unsteady on my feet.

I'm only on the beginning of scene 1. Trying to plagiarize Willy S takes a good bit of cut and pasting and deleting.

If nothing else you'll be stand in cauldron No. 2......unless, and I know it's a big ask, but Robin's part is actually Macbeth, which as you know Macbeth was a man. . And we all know Robin will not be particularly happy being seen on stage and have the audience think Robin is a ...well people will think Robin is the same sex as the character that R would be portraying. So there is a high chance of a theatrical flounce on the first night. Robin also seems to have a bit of an issue with witches as well. So I can see there being tears before bed for some posters.

beastlyslumber · 28/01/2023 09:27

Brilliant @Boiledbeetle! There's all sorts in that cauldron of yours.

DialSquare · 28/01/2023 09:23

I would have loved to have a part in the play but I've been using my cauldron for it's other use so I'm a bit slurred and unsteady on my feet.

EdithStourton · 28/01/2023 09:20

Happy to be an understudy.
(User advisory: I cannot act)

MassiveWordSalad · 28/01/2023 09:19

@Boiledbeetle Grin I hope you're getting some rest after all that!

Incidentally, using 'witches' as an insult to women is an excellent way to show that you are not, in fact, a woman.

Boiledbeetle · 28/01/2023 01:39

Hold on cake just in the middle of something...

It's the stage play of this thread I think it starts well, what do you think?

SCENE I. A terven. In the middle, a boiling cauldron.

Thunder. Enter the three Witches

Boiledbeetle:
Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.

IcakethereforeIam:
Thrice and once the hedge-pig whined.

Spero:
Harpier cries 'Tis time, 'tis time.

Boiledbeetle:
Round about the cauldron go;
In the poison'd entrails throw.
Toad, that under cold stone
Days and nights has thirty-one
Swelter'd venom sleeping got,
Boil thou first i' the charmed pot.

ALL
Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and cauldron bubble.

IcakethereforeIam:
Fillet of a fenny snake,
In the cauldron boil and bake;
Eye of newt and toe of frog,
Wool of bat and tongue of dog,
Adder's fork and blind-worm's sting,
Lizard's leg and owlet's wing,
For a charm of powerful trouble,
Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.

ALL:
Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

Spero:
Scale of dragon, tooth of wolf,
Witches' mummy, maw and gulf
Of the ravin'd salt-sea shark,
Root of hemlock digg'd i' the dark,
Liver of blaspheming Jew,
Gall of goat, and slips of yew
Silver'd in the moon's eclipse,
Nose of Turk and Tartar's lips,
Finger of birth-strangled babe
Ditch-deliver'd by a drab,
Make the gruel thick and slab:
Add thereto a tiger's chaudron,
For the ingredients of our cauldron.

ALL:
Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

IcakethereforeIam:
Cool it with a baboon's blood,
Then the charm is firm and good.

Enter Helleofabore to the other three Witches

Helleofabore:
O well done! I commend your pains;
And every one shall share i' the gains;
And now about the cauldron sing,
Live elves and fairies in a ring,
Enchanting all that you put in.

Music and a song: 'Black spirits,'

Helleofabore retires

IcakethereforeIam:
By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks!
Whoever knocks!

Enter Robinmoirawhite:

Robinmoirawhite:
How now, you secret, black, and midnight hags! What is't you do?

ALL:
A deed without a name.

Robinmoirawhite:

I conjure you, by that which you profess,
Howe'er you come to know it, answer me:
Though you untie the winds and let them fight
Against the churches; though the yesty waves
Confound and swallow navigation up;
Though bladed corn be lodged and trees blown down;
Though castles topple on their warders' heads;
Though palaces and pyramids do slope
Their heads to their foundations; though the treasure
Of nature's germens tumble all together,
Even till destruction sicken; answer me
To what I ask you.

Boiledbeetle:
Speak.

IcakethereforeIam:
Demand

Spero:
We'll answer.

Boiledbeetle:
Say, if thou'dst rather hear it from our mouths,Or from our masters?

Robinmoirawhite:
Call 'em; let me see 'em.

Boiledbeetle:
Pour in sow's blood, that hath eaten her nine farrow; grease that's sweaten from the murderer's gibbet thrown Into the flame.

Obviously it needs a bit of work.

Anyway, yeah, whenever you are free!

IcakethereforeIam · 28/01/2023 00:08

So, when shall we 87 meet again? 🐈‍⬛️

Boiledbeetle · 27/01/2023 23:54

Just because the response tweet is fucking ace

Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle
Boiledbeetle · 27/01/2023 23:45

Men cannot and never will be women.

Never.

Boiledbeetle · 27/01/2023 23:44

come back Robin, come and have a conversation with the 87 witches. Give us your thoughts on this from the above article.

Dr James Barrett, president of the British Association of Gender Identity Specialists, warned parliament’s women and equalities committee this was ripe for exploitation. He described “a tide of referrals of patients in prison serving long or indeterminate sentences for serious sexual offences”. He said the reasons were obvious: women’s prisons are nicer, inmates believe a female persona would play well with parole boards, but mainly there was “a plethora of prison intelligence” that the driving force “was a desire to make subsequent sexual offending very much easier”. The chairwoman, Maria Miller, ignored him.

Surely you've got some wise words to put us womenly minds at rest about this. to explain how any of this is fucking acceptable.

Come on Robin. Your the legal bod on this thread. You think this is perfectly alright. .you think it's fine that if a man says he's a woman then he is.

Come back and explain to us bigots and transphobic women, how the Fucking hell this is Fucking acceptable.

Because there is 87 posters on here who would really like to know how this is OK just so that you can get to be called a 🤐🤐🤐.No.I'm not saying it. You don't get that. It's not your word to use. It's ours. And wants and wishes will never make it so.

Come on Robin, talk to us witches.

Boiledbeetle · 27/01/2023 23:31

GiantKitten · 27/01/2023 23:24

This is Janice Turner’s column about trans prisoners - hope it will open, I’m not sure how Apple News links work.

Scotland dispensed with Elizabeth Fry’s first principle years ago.
Indeed, trans activists strategically targeted prison policy. James Morton, head of the Scottish Trans Alliance, formulated the SPS’s rules. By enabling the service “to include trans women as women on a self-declaration basis within very challenging circumstances”, he wrote, “we would be able to ensure all other public services do likewise”. In other words, if horrible things happen to female prisoners, no one will find out (or even care), so we can “prove” to the NHS or schools that self-ID is risk-free.

apple.news/AU8M2eAKHRY-PcZSKMtU6pg

It opened fine for me, and if it helps I'm not on a 🍎device.

Thanks

Boiledbeetle · 27/01/2023 23:29

so, @beastlyslumber did go and start a thread.

Turns out the podcast is illuminating in regards to some of the conversations we would have in this thread if we could.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4729845-illuminating-and-disturbing-view-from-a-psychologist?reply=123441712

GiantKitten · 27/01/2023 23:24

This is Janice Turner’s column about trans prisoners - hope it will open, I’m not sure how Apple News links work.

Scotland dispensed with Elizabeth Fry’s first principle years ago.
Indeed, trans activists strategically targeted prison policy. James Morton, head of the Scottish Trans Alliance, formulated the SPS’s rules. By enabling the service “to include trans women as women on a self-declaration basis within very challenging circumstances”, he wrote, “we would be able to ensure all other public services do likewise”. In other words, if horrible things happen to female prisoners, no one will find out (or even care), so we can “prove” to the NHS or schools that self-ID is risk-free.

apple.news/AU8M2eAKHRY-PcZSKMtU6pg