Is a man accused of rape guilty until proven innocent?

Jesus Christ. I promised myself I'd not come in this section again, but you cannot be serious. Suggesting you can make anybody "guilty until proven innocent" of any crime under British law is total madness and undermines the way in which our legal system is supposed to work. And the vengeance potential would be hideous.

I do Noyoucan't.

The verdict "Not Guilty" does not mean Innocent. It just means that there wasn't enough evidence to convict someone beyond reasonable doubt. That applies to all crimes.

However, in other crimes, there is a higher level of convictions, so a Not Guilty verdict is more credible. It is almost impossible to get a Guilty verdict in a rape trial, therefore, the Not Guilty verdicts lack credibility.

With all crimes, depending on the circumstances, individuals, background to the crime etc., whether the Not Guilty verdict is credible, really comes down to the individual case. (OJ Simpson is a good example, I don't believe he is innocent and neither do the police, who aren't looking for anyone else.) We use our individual judgement about the cases we hear about, while bearing in mind that we can't know for sure. Rape is no different from any other crime in that sense, except that it has a much higher rate of non-conviction, presumably leading to higher rates of scepticism about not guilty verdicts.

"I certainly don't assume that a man found not guilty is innocent"

MillyR, do you apply this approach to all crimes, and to both sexes, or just to men found not guilty in rape cases?

I don't know Shiny, but I suggest the the Government should fund some major studies into it rather than continue with their current plans which seems to be based on no research at all.

What do other countries do differently? Or do they just have different attitudes to rape, i.e. the onus is on the man to not commit rape, rather than the woman's ability to keep herself safe and sober?

I don't think, in reality, it would be possible for all men accused of rape to be considered guilty until proved innocent. That would involve keeping all men accused of rape in prison on remand until trial. That is clearly unworkable.

I think the point is to improve rape conviction rapes so that they are similar to other European countries, because at the moment it is so hard to get a conviction for rape that no man accused of rape is ever really proved innocent in the eyes of all of society. We know that we don't have an effective legal system for sexual and other violent crimes against women, so the outcome is fairly meaningless. I certainly don't assume that a man found not guilty is innocent, and won't do until the legal system works.

No, you can't change the law to anyone being guilty till proven innocent, not for any crime in any circumstances.

There are undoubtedly other changes that could be made to the legal system to help women feel able to report rape and get through the court experience, and that's where the work should be put in. Plus education to lawyers, judges and the public - as Shiny says, plenty of people still think it's less "culpable" if the woman was out late at night, drinking, wearing a short skirt, taking a shortcut down a dark alley etc. We have to get away from that culture to one where it should be assumed that a woman can do those things without having to feel she is being reckless of her own safety.

I think something has to change but I don't think it should be guilty until proven innocent.

What needs to change is the perception that the woman is somehow responsible. More and more women don't report for fear of being blamed or having people think they 'asked for it'.

Rape victims should not feel ashamed.