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Original poster

So banning the Burka - freeing women from opression or taking away free choice...?

557 replies

Portoeufino · 09/04/2010 20:23

I read that in Belgium there is a draft bill to ban burkas and also the niqab.

As they put it " There is nothing in Islam or the Koran about the burka. It has become an institution of intimidation and is a sign of submission of women. A civilized society cannot accept the imprisonment of women."

They then talk of "matters of public safety" - is that implying that if you wear a burka is it therefore likely you might have it stuffed with explosives? Or if you cover your face, then there are security issues connected with that?

I have to admit I am very ignorant about all this. DO women only wear this clothing because they are opressed? Do they choose to? What happens if it is banned? Are women freed, or will they end up forbidden from leaving the house?

I am very interested to learn and understand more about this.

OP posts:
umayma · 09/04/2010 23:49

?And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear therof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons, or their women or the servants whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex, and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O you Believers, turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss.? (Quran 24:31).

?O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.? (Quran 33:59)

winnybella · 09/04/2010 23:49

Interestingly enough, in France, where I live, out of 8 or 10 millions of muslims only few thousands women cover their faces and a great majority of them are ethnically French converts, not women of Arabic or Asian origin.

Umayma, you are taking few verses that were written centuries ago literally and think they still apply today? I think there's plenty things in the Bible that are very outdated re women's having to submit to men's wishes etc. Haven't our ideas about equality between sexes evolved a bit since then?

For some, obviously not.

Original poster
Portoeufino · 09/04/2010 23:48

"In the above-mentioned hadith we find Al-Fadl looking at the lady because her beauty attracted him. Here too, it is understood that the face of the lady was exposed as the hadith says that the woman was beautiful. Obviously, it is the face that plays the most significant role in making a person being perceived as ugly or beautiful. In spite of this, the prophet didn't instruct the lady to cover her face but instead turned the face of Al-Fadl in order to prevent him from staring at her, further substantiating the verse of the Qur'an from Surah An-Noor, 24:30, which says:

"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do."

Quote from Puss earlier...not for the women to cover but for the men not to look.....

OP posts:
umayma · 09/04/2010 23:46

why don't you ask Him on Judgement Day

the point is that..

women only cover in front of men they are able to marry

Allah has told us that we don't have to go OUT to work, He has made that mens responsibility.

so we do not have to be out all day working in a burqa, we can be at home, not covering, doing our (just as demanding) work.

maybe i'm not making sense

Original poster
Portoeufino · 09/04/2010 23:40

And why cover up? I see muslim women every day (said this already). Their heads are covered and the only flesh you see is their face and hands. But they dress in "fashionable" clothes and look stylish and modern. A lot more than I do it could be said!

Presumably it is perfectly acceptable for them to go about their day to day business dressed as such. They look wonderful - no cleavage, no arses hanging out etc. Why would you need to stick a burka over the top?

OP posts:
Molesworth · 09/04/2010 23:40

"women who work in a profession alongside men will cover because Allah tells them in Qur'an to cover up in front of men they aren't related to."

What is the reason for this?

littleducks · 09/04/2010 23:39

Oh and there are now vit D defiency problems created by the wearing of strong sunscreen. I think that improving diet (oily fish etc) and supplements if especially required is a far better solution

umayma · 09/04/2010 23:38

the majority of tasks for muslim housewives would be inside the home where they don't cover at all.

women who work in a profession alongside men will cover because Allah tells them in Qur'an to cover up in front of men they aren't related to.

littleducks · 09/04/2010 23:38

Sorry, but were you going to answer my question dittany? I dont want to be irritating i just keep refreshing this page to check

Oh i also disagree that:

Headcovering is a symbol of male ownership

Do you think that applies to men who cover their heads or just women?

dittany · 09/04/2010 23:33

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winnybella · 09/04/2010 23:33

Well, umayma, that is the point- why the women have to cover up and men don't? Even if we talk only about women who work professionally- why do they have to perform their tasks in a restrictive garment, while men don't?

umayma · 09/04/2010 23:33

no they just cover in front of men they're not related to (anyone they could marry)

Original poster
Portoeufino · 09/04/2010 23:31

Women don't have to wear mini skirts and high heels though. It is not a fair analogy.

umayma, do women have to cover up when they are with other women? Or only when in general company?

OP posts:
umayma · 09/04/2010 23:30

night night, i hope more people read Qur'an sometime to get a better understanding

dittany · 09/04/2010 23:28

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dittany · 09/04/2010 23:27

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umayma · 09/04/2010 23:26

no i meant the majority don't have to go out to work.

of course muslim women work and if they work outside the home then they are going to come in contact with men so they would cover up. if they were in a women only work environment they wouldn't have to cover up so much.

dittany · 09/04/2010 23:21

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winnybella · 09/04/2010 23:20

*exactly and they

dittany · 09/04/2010 23:19

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Original poster
Portoeufino · 09/04/2010 23:19

eh? This is a post in the FEMINIST section!

OP posts:
winnybella · 09/04/2010 23:18

farmer jones- and how exactlu would you know whether or not thay are vitamin d defficient? It's not necessarily apparent to all, you know. If a woman's akin is never exposed to sun, you can bet she is not getting all the vitamin d she is supposed to get.

umayma- ok, so burkhas aren't practical for men who work. But they could still be covering their faces?
In many countries, where women are allowed to work, they do wear burkhas or similar restrictive clothing because they have to.
So your arguement is pretty weak.

umayma · 09/04/2010 23:17

what are you talking about i know being a houswife is work!

i'm saying we don't have to go out all day to work to provide for our families, that is mens responsibility

farmerjones · 09/04/2010 23:15

no it doesnt dittany. that is exactly what i am trying to explain to you. it doesnt make it any more difficult

i find the mini skirt far more of a symbol of oppression than any other attire. sky high heels come next. followed by fake boobs.

on another thread, someone spoke about erosion of civil liberties because of the need for carrying an id card. being told you cant wear an item of clothing you want to, is more of an erosion.

umayma · 09/04/2010 23:14

i don't wear niqab because i will upset my family, (we're English)and i won't be able to go to visit them wearing it, cos i already get funny looks now from wearing headscarf.

otherwise i'd wear it and wouldn't feel oppressed, because it would be my choice and for a religious reason.