Which entrenched views need to change in society

That a woman or girl who is raped ever "asked for it"

The idea that a woman without a ring around her finger is like a dog without a collar around its neck - something to be both pitied and controlled.

The notion that I, as a woman, give a SHIT about the tidiness of my house. I may, or I may not, but it won't be because I am a woman.

The fact that when a woman hits the menopause and who you are is no longer definable by your breeding capabilities, you become a nonperson. You aren't hated and reviled, but you aren't heard. You aren't seen. Clever make up to hide the wrinkles, clever underwear to reduce the hip/waist ratio to that of a fertile woman and the breast to those of a younger woman, and hair dye to hide 'those tell tale grey hairs' - as if experience, patience and wisdom are something to be ashamed of and must be disguised when held by a female human.

That the loss of control that is crying is seen as more shameful than the loss of control that is shouting. Both are a loss of control. Both are toddler behavior. Both are weak, not just the one more commonly associated with women.

The fact that non resident fathers can take their kids for one night a week, cough up £30 and a MacDonalds a week and they're "really good, isn't he? Most dads don't bother!" If a non resident mother does that, "she's abandoned her babies". Why is that?

The ridiculous idea that a man left at home, alone, with a child should be forgiven for low level neglect such as inappropriate clothing for the weather, and inadequate food simply because he has a penis and that is the only reason.

You know how 'Pregnancy isn't an illness'?
Having a penis isn't a learning difficulty. Breasts produce milk, not Persil Gel and Flash multisurface, and furthermore, they do not come with a clean-sock-radar.

That, upon marriage, a woman should automatically be addressed as "Mrs Husband's Firstname Husband's Surname". I have had many a battle about that...

But Laurie - work is primarily there in order to enable people to earn money. Women fought, in the name of feminism, to be able to earn money on the same terms as men.

The entrenched view that women have a less sanguine view of work and earning power than men do is probably right...

That it is automically assumed that the woman will put her career on hold to look after the couple's baby.

That women can't reverse park

That feminism = man hater

That equality exists simply because we have some women in well paid jobs

That it is acceptable to leer at schoolgirls as long as their breasts have developed

I would like to see the phrase "honour crime" called what it actually is - murder.

That being stick thin is the be all and end all to attractiveness - sometimes I think we're getting there with that one and then it all goes tits up again.
(Note - there is NOTHING WRONG with being thin if that is the way you are naturally and I DO NOT mean it is ok to be morbidly obese)

Too much energy is wasted by too many people being made to feel overconscious of their bodies because they don't fit some fashion designers' "ideal"

Thinking that women are somehow less capable of understanding "technical" stuff and are generally poor at science and maths - it's still happening! Why??

I would like schools to realise that parents need notice of things. And that we are not all available during the working day to transport children to football matches/violin days and so on. I didn't expect to come up against this but the last 6 years have taught me that actually schools don't seem to expect mothers to be working at all.

That young women are liabilities to an employers because they'll only run off and have babies and leave their employer in the lurch during their maternity leave. While men are safe bets who can be more highly valued (in salary terms) and given greater responsibility.

Give new fathers and mothers equal time off after the birth of a child and this can change.

Getorfmyland - and I bet he hasn't the faintest idea of the truth of that. He probably thinks we're all equal now.

Ok, I hear you. I'm the complete opposite of that - I don't think about work in terms of financial cost at all.

X-post I think elephants - do the budget first and then decide if staying at home is worth the loss of the £400 a month you would earn above childcare, or if you would rather work even if you only earn 50p a week after childcare is taken out (and remember to think about National Insurance payments etc).

Both partners in a relationship should have the same amount of spending money after shared household costs are taken care of, so the childcare money is not precisely coming out of the woman's wage, but it must be offset against the second income when budgeting.

In a very important negotiation last week - bloke said 'I have to go at 3.30 on the dot as I have to take my dd to a ballet exam'

Everyone nodded and smiled.

If I had done that nobody would ever have taken me seriously again.

That's true Trillian but many women who are "second income earners" may rather be back at work even if it would prove slightly cheaper overall to stay at home. Besides, with promotion etc things can change rapidly and the difference be cancelled out, whereas if the "stay at home" decision has been made that often traps the mother in a lower/no income bracket for life.

Many men still seem to find the concept of "family money" a hard one. In such cases it's far better that both parents are working and paying out for childcare (if the mother wants to work) then that the father is earning and the woman is effectively living on handouts from her H at his own discretion.

So then you decide if the cost is worth what you gain in all of those other factors Laurie. But I would always work out the budget first.

Yes, i can see that in accounting terms but working is sometimes about so much more than accounting - for some people it's about self-respect, maintaining an independant identity, carrying on a previously trained for career, being a role model to your children.

"the view that childcare costs come from the woman's wage"

But in accounting terms you have to weigh up the wage of the second parent working against childcare to see if it leaves you better off than having just one parent working and no childcare costs. And the second parent working is nearly always the woman.

Agree very strongly with:

"If a bloke has to take some time from work to go and attend to a sick child/watch a school play = he is a hero and a wonderful father

If a working woman does the same = she is a flake"

Why Bonsoir?

"the view that it is an unconscionable curtailment of a man's human rights to expect him to care whether a woman he is paying to penetrate has been coerced"

Absolutely, brilliantly put skiddodly

I believe very strongly that childcare costs must be set against a couple's second income and are not a joint cost to be shared by both parents.

the fallacy that one man has wisdom to impart to women about all men

the view that it is an unconscionable curtailment of a man's human rights to expect him to care whether a woman he is paying to penetrate has been coerced

apparently it's OK to rape someone as long as you're not sure they are being forced

and

'oh she must be having her period' when a woman is upset/emotional etc.

I think real emotional resonses to people are often dismissed.

That there is such a thing as a 'crime of passion'

That it is a defence to murder if you say he was 'nagged'

That single mothers are villified rather than the absent father