Which entrenched views need to change in society

'as long as we keep them dependent for so unnaturally long it will be the women who will burden the load'

Have to agree with this comment. By the time I was 15 I was working, paying for my keep and buying my own clothes, etc. From around 12 I did a quarter of the household tasks along with my sister, working mother and shift working Dad. Everything - washing, cooking, ironing, gardening was shared equally. There were still some rules set by my parents, e.g. no late nights before a working day, and DM and DF were always available for advice and discussion.

When I hear 18 year old school students referred to as children in the media I squirm. I think we do a huge diservice to our young adults by treating them as dependants for so long. Sooner they have freedoms and responsibilities the better they will adjust to adult life.

Casual misogyny should be as unacceptable as racism. Did anyone see "100 Greatest Stand Ups" or some such rubbish the other night? The misogyny displayed in that was jaw dropping. Jim Davidson saying "you wouldn't speak to 'em [women] if you didnt want to fuck 'em".

Think many of the examples given stem from the basic truth that what men do is seen as the norm and important what women do is "other" so to be grudgingly accommodated at best or sneered at and dismissed at worst. Think this is evidenced by the universality of mens football (on the news every night for gods sake), porn in newsagents etc. The right of teenage boy's/inadequate men to have easy access to wank fodder is more important than the disquiet of all the women and girls using the corner shop.

childcare provides a benefit to the whole of society just as does health and education therefore childcare should be paid for by EVERYONE not just individual parents (mothers)

the long hours working culture for ALL (parents/non-parents) needs to change

we need to value both economically and socially the work that women do, whether paid or unpaid

we need to encourage our 'menfolk' into traditional female employment such as caring, cleaning, catering and clerical jobs,
it is no use encouraging women into medicine,law, academia etc if men's working patterns dont also change- it doesnt matter how many female judges there are some one still has to clean the toilet of the court!

we need to get rid of the assumption that our kids need so much parenting, as long as we keep them dependent for so unnaturally long it will be the women who will burden the load

we need to stop refering to having children as a 'choice' as if it compares to buying a new car. Children are not some consumerist personal indulgence but as much a part of life as breathing and eating. As a society we should be much more accepting of children.

That women should have loads of hair on their heads and NONE elswhere; that women should spend an hour everyday of their lives 'grooming' before they are fit to be seen in polite society; that female children have to be indoctrinated into these principles from an increasingly early age.

That governments and committees made up mainly of men have the right or the knowledge to make decisions that affect mainly women.

I'm thinking of this picture of Bush signing a law limiting abortion rights. But this is happening everywhere, all the time. IMO people cannot rightly legislate on matters that do not and can never affect them personally.

that the emotional response is the bad response, we should all make logical decisions, AND that is coupled with the assumption that women make emotional responses, men make logical ones.

Well, that would leave us all single, childless, and bored shitless at the ridiculous men running around a field taking turns with the ball.

We should value our emotions more, but also learn how & when to step back & be logical (hint - mortgage payments, use logic, family time, use emotion)

As an aside, the local native american story of how maple sugar was discovered, involves a chief's wife who spent the day chatting & didn't have time to cook a proper dinner. some stereotypes are very pervasive.

Women incessantly prattle, chatter, gossip, witter on, tittle-tattle, squeal, yak, prate, cackle, tongue-wag, gush, clack, shrill and bitch

Men engage in meaningful conversation....mostly about football

rofl

right on, kalo

that running a bank, a business, building a sky scraper, performing brain surgery or any other highly paid job, is more important than bringing up children properly.

bringing up children is the most impotant job in soceity and being a sah parent is actually extremely worthwhile and not inferior to having a career.

being flexible, harmonious, giving in , tolerating and intuiting are much more valuable qualities for soceity than single mindedness, power and control

attachment parenting - breastfeeding, co sleeping, co dependance are not really valued highhly in british soceity

btw i'm not a stay at home mum , i am the main bread winner, whilst my dh is a sahd and has endless patience with our toddler

That men have to orgasm regularly or go mad.
That men have to be stimulated by visual images.
Therefore that porn is some sort of benign necessity.

That normal adult women are mostly hairless and that sexual images of shaved girls are unrelated to paedophiliac traits.

That if you object to porn you are prudish / frigid / controlling / insecure etc etc.

They have just had more practice minipie.

that women are inherently better at looking after children

Oh, don't! If you were a man-hater you would have cope up with a more balanced list! Obviously women-haters have had a lot more say in the formation of the english language...

The idea that feminism means man-hating.

Why, thank you, E&M - I could go on.....!

but I might get labeled a bitter and twisted man-hater who could 'do with a good seeing to'. (howl with laughter smiley)

great list GP.

He's assertive
She's strident

He's dynamic and go-getting
she's bossy and domineering.

That there're no FIL jokes

That he must 'sow his wild oats' but she must stay a virgin - who the hell does he 'sow his wild oats' with?

That he's a stud, she's a slut

she's a nag, bitch, harridan, harpy, crone, shrew, slag, chick, poppet, dearie, crone, virago, dyke, bimbo, floozy, tart, trollop, piece, biddy, siren, battle-axe, old trout, bluestocking, left-on-the-shelf, milf, dried up old spinster, man-eater, sex-pot, dog, whore and he's a ..... hmmm

Ooh Coldtits those are ace, especially the crying -v- shouting thing. Imagine if everyone started crying in the house of commons when they disagreed passionately!

Gardenpath - had never thought of that before becauseIamalazyarse but bloody right.

While we're here - that shouting over people in parliament contributes helpfully to debate. I'm for a no-shouting week and see what happens.

I think they've all been said. The primary one is that women are responsible for children and not men. Some women tolerate sexism and some don't and whether they do or don't makes a huge difference to their lives.

Some also because they have no power except in the home like to denigrate how men do things, how they change nappies, love to say "he's hopeless" and then do that silly smile thing. He isn't hopeless. He might be better than you are if you'd let him get on with it in his own way. Different isn't worse. Mothers aren't Gods.

..also that all of us want to take a lot of time off work after birth. It should be an uncontroversial I chose to take 2 weeks off as if Camerson takes two weeks off when his wife gives birth. The reaction to Palin and Dati in similar cases really shows how far we have yet to go as regards women and work.

That there is an expectation of sex after two, three, insert number, of dates.

That porn in the local sweet shop is harmless.

....that almost every village playing field is given over to football and cricket pitches - paid for from the public purse - but you try asking for a netball court....