How is it possible to be a feminist and support the sex industry?

tried to read through, ended up a bit goggly eyed, but...

even if MissHoneymoon, is real, which I think s/he most certainly is not - £1,000 a night for sex???? There's no way s/he can speak for any kind of consensus of prostitutes.

not as much as reading some of your posts

Blimey, Claig - a joke? Did it hurt?

I think mandamumu's use of the initials NR may be referring to the renowned Japanese sex photographer Notan Rsole

no, you carry on, sgb

it was just getting interesting...

Manda: Ok, don't worry - if you were one of the people I thought you might be, you would have known (no idea what NR means).
The rest of you, this is not a reference to arcane sexual practices, but a specific handful of people would know what/who I meant by that.

As we were...

Ermm... The only bells rung by the shark & photographer reference are the ones whose initials are NR.

But I am known for suddenly standing up two days later and shouting "Oh bugger! I know what that is"

I am very far north if that helps...

"If I mentioned 'shark' with reference to 'photographer' would you know what and who I was talking about?"

what's Jacques Cousteau got to do with this?

Manda, at the risk of sending certain posters beserk, I wonder if I do know you. If I mentioned 'shark' with reference to 'photographer' would you know what and who I was talking about? If not, don't worry.

Hobbgoblin, yes, quite.
I think it;s also worth pointing out that there are jobs within the sex industry that don't expose you to risk of physical danger and can make a reasonable about of money eg phonesex or text sex - and with phonesex if you are any good at it you can actually set up on your own and keep all the money your lines make.

I haven't read more than a few posts in yet but am going to comment by way of also bookmarking the thread for later reading...

The sex industry serves males to a greater degree than it does females but it is not solely a male serving industry. Thus, even on that basis it is possible to support prostitution and pornography and still be a feminist.

As feminists 'supporting' the industry one might hope that one does so in a way that makes paying for sex less the domain of men - in the majority - by making the concept of sex less about an act which meets men's physical needs and more one which meets women and men's emotional and physical needs equally without judgement.

We still seem to maintain a belief in society, however subconsciously or subtly, that sexual enjoyment for females is a taboo subject. This is why a male student can sleep with half his campus proudly and yet his female counterpart is often judged as 'loose' or whorish by her peers.

Females and males perpetuate sexual inequality on the most basic of levels before one even ventures into the territory of paid for sex.

To not shun prostitution would at least begin to normalise the idea thar women can and do enjoy sex on many levels and not just in the context of monogamous, marital and non-fetishistic relations.

I read it

it was bollocks

there, saved you all a very boring job

don't say I never do you lot any favours...

I read it

it was bollocks

there, saved you all a very boring job

don't say I never do you lot any favours...

You know what, dittany and molesworth? it may be tl;dr to you but I'm interested in what both MissHM and Manda have to say, especially when they have room to say it in a substantive fashion without being accused of being a john or a pimp.

I notice that some of the Angel quotes are also pretty long.

< goes back to re-read bits >

tl; dr

Now that's an admission!

So glad I'm not the only one.

what is tl;dr

Really pleased that not everyone is so simple minded and hard wired into all women are victims all men are perpetrators? mentality and are actually trying to have a dialogue so I took a brief moment to escape my pimp?s clutches and quick rest from servicing Litany?s ?rapist? hubby to again add my Happy Hooker lies.

I have not magically appeared from my cage in my boudoir to sing the praises of prostitution but read a number of threads on this board for a few months. I enjoyed many of them and chuckled along with the Penguin thread and other classics. Quite a few members on here also post on an escort only forum where we actually discuss Mumsnet threads. This was initially filling us with high hopes of a balanced and intelligent discussion without the usual hysterical examples of abused sex slaves. Sadly the most vociferous voices are those who seem to have the same views their puritan forbearers might have had centuries ago just before organising a little pitchfork mob off to burn the wicked witch of Notting Hill. The ?sisters? are fine with whimpering victims as long as the victims/prostitutes renounce harloting as evil and do penance. If we are defiant and say we quite like the majority of our jobs ? the insults and venom starts flowing.

But to some good and serious points ? sadly exploitation and violence do happen in this industry mirrored in domestic situations across the country. Someone pointed out that dogma and intolerance usually coincided with countries with among the worst human rights records and inequality of women. The original article is distressing and shocking but worse still is that the overall situation of women in Bangladesh is dire with basic equal rights being far from established.

Manda and a few other ladies who post on here are my colleagues and friends. We have as much in common with street workers and trafficked victims as most women. Prostitution like many other industries has totally different facets. Most people ignore the fact that if you take the drama out of sex work ? exploitation and coercion sadly exists in other professions too. Every time you eat somewhere or in fact consume any number of consumer goods you will unwittingly participate and contribute to slave labour and exploitation. Realising that is one thing ? running around like some headless Bindel drone and labelling all for example cleaners as exploited slaves is as nonsensical as applying this to our line of work is insulting and unhelpful to genuine victims. What is more important is not to try and drive a legal activity underground thus actually making it harder for women to tackle abusers. Closing down parlours and focusing on places that offer a safe working alternative for more than one sex worker at a time actually forces those not organised to go it alone or without the capital to set up a website and working premises on the street.

Prostitution is not a job that suits everyone. Paradoxically those in the most economic trouble are often the least suited to this work. Desperation makes people far too vulnerable to anyone trying to manipulate or overstep boundaries. When women (of all ages) email me asking me to help them get set up as escorts I suggest that they read info on a dedicated website but also try all manner of debt resolution and citizen advice places. I do not see it my responsibility or job to help them into prostitution just because I am in the trade. I do however support a mentor scheme. If you really want to tackle the evils of prostitution than you should focus on housing and general economical issues such as affordable childcare and flexible jobs that allows women to work and raise kids. And the current direction the education system takes is another contributing factor with astronomical fees and little support for students. Several of my colleagues are funding post graduate courses. My only hope is that later they will be in positions to influence and change society to be fairer on women especially.

As for Angel?s story ? btw we really do not call our clients Johns! It seems poignant that this is seems to be a non UK story given the terminology. Sex workers are far more vulnerable when working somewhere where prostitution is illegal like the States. A vulnerable girl is sadly open to manipulation and abuse both in a paid and unpaid encounter. Please stop making so many ignorant assumptions about our working conditions so. Ladies/escorts (or whores if you like!) have quite a clear menu of services they are happy to provide which varies from person to person. In the great majority of cases we dictate what happens in an encounter.

No, I don't run an agency.

Sometimes when girls are researching the business and considering becoming an escort, they find the website of a woman who seems approachable and they contact us to ask questions.

I point them in the direction of information which will help them decide, but in some cases they only get that after I've told them straight that I don't think they should do it.
Anyone who has an image of Richard Gere in their head should think again for a start.

Look, no one who is a regular MNer and a sex worker is going to say it on MN for fear of someone tracking down her identity and shopping her to Social Services. So don't read too much into the fact that any posters who say on this thread that they are currently working in the sex industry are new posters.
ANd while I have great sympathy for those who have been forced into allowing people to have sex with them for money, their experiences, however awful, are not 'more' valid than anyone else's different experiences.
And it honestly seems to me that the best way to improve the situation is to understand the difference between being a trafficked victim, or an abuse victim ie being controlled by another person, unable to escape, subject to abuse and violence - and a person who chooses a line of work that wouldn't appeal to or suit everyone is that the person doing it of her (or his) own free will is selling her/his time and physical/mental effort, and can walk away when the agreed time is up, the abuse victim, whether s/he is being subjected to sex or doing something like cocklepicking at the risk of her/his life, cannot walk away, is in terror of the traffickers etc.

is part of your job to vet the women to see if they are suitable and to avoid the biggest problem?

"but I have met several girls who needed to be talked out of it before they did something they may later regret. That's the biggest problem, that young girls assume they can do this, when in fact not everyone can."

Mandamumu, are you running an agency? Is that how you are introduced to working girls?