Why do I get so irrationally angry at all these "poor men" threads?

(I guess I am a postmodern feminist dittany!)

this influence not his influence!

I'm just problematizing it from long-distant perspectives I was presented with at university. Postmodern/cultural studies stuff... it's very hazy to me now, and I'm not saying I necessarily believe it, just throwing it out there.. If I had been a good little student I could probably say all sorts of clever things about Foucault, but I was lazy and it is a long time ago

I really don't feel sorry for rapists! Just applying the same logic that I have seen applied elsewhere to, say, everyday folk in Nazi Germany who colluded with the atrocities, wondering how this happens to human beings, what cultural forces make it happen so to speak.

I think having a baby boy (still brand new, only 3 months, sitting with his daddy here beside me watching Rugby Union) has made me reconsider everything I ever thought from a feminist perspective. I saw my dh cry for the first time in years the other day becase his job is under threat and he feels this huge pressure to provide for our son. This despite the fact that we earn the same, and it's quite simple really, if he loses his job, I could just go back to work and we would muddle through. But I sense he would feel emasculated by that? And I feel this terrible pull to stay home? Despite the fact I love my job and he hates his? So we are clearly acting under the influence of cultural forces, and I wonder how far his influence can stretch e.g. to the bad stuff, like rape/war etc? (Sorry if there seems to be a massive leap there.. )

'Masculinity is about male domination over women and everything that flows from that.'

Masculinity is about being male like femininity is about being female. There's nothing innate in masculinity (or maleness) that requires the man to be demeaning or domineering over women. I'm not saying that there aren't men out there like that but it's not accurate to pin the blame on masculinity.

I think if we go down the road of seeing everything that has male attributes as somehow intrinsically bad or undesirable then we would be doing everyone a disservice. I'm sure quite a few people here have sons.

But does that mean that men can be other than masculine? I dislike the word femininity because it is so loaded with so-called female 'virtues'. I guess masculinity could be see the same.

That's a particular type of masculinity, though ditanny.. It is just as potentially limiting of life choices for men as women, ultimately disadvantaging both. For example, you may have men who feel compelled to see e.g. caring for a baby as something that is not the right or 'masculine' to do, so they don't involve themselves, depriving themselves of the joy of it and leaving the mothers of their children feeling isolated and alone in the relationship. On a more serious level, you have men who feel compelled, when with other men, to conform and acquiesce with demeaning or abusing women, even where this is something that will haunt them. Everyone becomes damaged.

Think of that word: privilege.Shouldn't privilege, by definition, equate with something positive and advantageous? To ask a terribly crude, awful question: is it pleasant to be a soldier in an environment where rape is used as a weapon? Do we believe this is what men want? Or to take a less potentially inflammatory example, is a 'high paid' job involving, say, 80 hours a week working in a very competitive environment where you are expected to conform to certain stereotypes (cocaine, alcohol abuse, frequent anonymous sex) necessarily privileged? Do all men find all of the above fulfilling and positive? What about men who don't want that for their lives, aren't they also constrained by these stereotypes?

MrsBean78 - I agree. I think that it starts with the whole 'boys will be boys' that some people use to explain the bad behaviour of young boys.

I still get vaguely irritated about the way boys' academic underperformance is talked about.

For all the years when girls did worse than boys it was because girls were less clever than boys. (This was the case as recently as 10 years ago in relation to them getting fewer Firsts than boys.)
Now boys are doing worse it's because the system is wrong.

(sorry, not a very profound post I'm afraid.)

I understand how one can be when you care such a lot about an issue and think other people don't care. I feel the same way about issues for women around the world, and I feel frustrated when I see what I might consider trivial human issues being addressed in the First World when there are far greater and more profound difficulties being faced elsewhere. I am not talking about the issues of rape and domestic violence. But with some issues of principle it feels as though the most privileged population wants to dot their own 'i's and cross their own 't's, when the worst off are still on their very knees.

I understand though that it must seem very distant, and I don't wish to diminish the most serious problems still suffered by women in the First World.

Men being portrayed as incompetent idiots at childcare/cleaning is a feminist problem: it implies that housework is of the female domain.

The way in which men are allowed to be masculine has a massive impact upon women's rights. So, in our concern for the reduced 'masculinities' available to men, we can be very feminist.

Diametrically opposing men's and women's rights disadvantages the Women's Movement.

I have a son and a daughter. My son is quite miserable for quite a lot of the time. A lot of that may have something to do with the state of society and our children being some of the unhappiest in Europe It may have something to do with patriarchy. I am concerned about the fact that my son is unhappy and I do want him to be happier.

But I do not see how feminism is making my son unhappy, or how anything done by feminists in the past or present is contributing to that. How is reducing the number of women raped or beaten, or the effectiveness of women in the workplace going to make things worse for my son's future?

I think like, ISNT, I just don't get why trying to eradicate sexism somehow means I am ignoring the problems facing boys.

I also think that a lot more of the issues facing boys should be addressed by men, who after all have been in that position. I am possibly better at guiding my daughter through a sexist world because I have been through the process of going from girl to woman myself, but I don't know what it is like to be a boy.

'Where my beef lies is when people are talking about women being victims of DV, and the majority of DV victims are women, and people come on and say "but men are victims of DV too and let's stop talking about women victims and talk about male ones instead and what should be done to help them".'

I'd be totally with you on that if I had ever seen it happen. I haven't so far. I have seen some people attempt to expand DV conversations from only about male-on-female DV to discussing male-on-female and female-on-male DV. But then people trying that tend to get vehemently shouted down and accused of being 'women-haters'.

Oh yes totally behind you on that.

I think it's fair and balanced to state that boys are being disadvantaged by the education system and that men are also victims of domestic violence.

But the fact remains that where it counts - in the boardroom, in senior roles in politics, in corporate life, men outnumber women around 10:1. Men are wealthier and have more economic clout. In the interest of balance, let's not forget that men ultimately have much more power than women.

"And most importantly everyone would treat each other with a minimum amount of respect." Yes.

My use of the phrase 'pot of rights' was meant to stand for everything. Resources, attention, govt interest,the whole thing.