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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The kind of “girl” that a boy who identifies as a girl thinks he is

120 replies

MyAmpleSheep · Today 14:49

How do people who celebrate the transitioning of five year old children know that the kind of girl a boy who identities as a “girl” identifies as is the same kind of girl that a girl who identifies as a “girl” is?

Other than than from what he sees girls doing, how can a boy “know” what being a girl is, to be sure he is one?

is it posited that there is an innate sense of boy:girl that exists outside of the experience of seeing and being the presence of others?

If a child was “raised by wolves”, could they be trans? If that child had a male body and reached the age of 20 never having seen or met or known of the existence of women is it possible for them to grow up with dysphoria? When eventually discovering the other sex would they suddenly recognize “they had been born in the wrong body”?

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Soontobe60 · Today 21:19

Lacksie · Today 18:13

Women with CAIS are men?

People with CAIS are male. They are often raised as female and it may not be diagnosed until these males fail to have periods or breasts as teens.

Grammarnut · Today 21:17

DeeperShadeofRed · Today 15:49

It's all very Plato's cave allegory.

Plato's cave allegory makes more sense.

MyAmpleSheep · Today 21:17

Lacksie · Today 16:31

So have you or have you not accepted the first step- that it is entirely plausible that a persons neurocognitive awareness/ experience of their sex, could be incongruent with their anatomy?

If so , then we can move on to address the misunderstandings about how we respond to this (eg the idea that "affirming" someone's experience of gender is the same as a clinician pretending someone has a rubber limb)...

Edited

FWIW, I can accept that it's plausible that a child's neurocognitive belief about their sex could be incongruent with their anatomy. Plausible.

I also think it's clearly a pathology, a significant psychological disorder, and I don't accept that affirmation is the appropriate response.

I'd like to know why it has significant comorbidity with autism, and why it occurs in clusters: two out of three children in my extended family on one side.

I think handing out the pills like smarties without knowing the answers to these questions - treating medicine as a social justice issue - as Sam Hall wrote she was doing, revealed in the Redvers vs. NHS Sussex Integrated Care Board tribunal - is criminally reckless. I'm glad that has been stopped in the UK, but I'm dismayed it occurs elsewhere in the world.

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HenriettaSwanLeavitt2 · Today 21:11

Lacksie · Today 19:54

Ah of course. Blame the primary care giver- usually the mother of course .

Sloppy attempt at guilt-tripping.

NotBadConsidering · Today 21:11

Tears0fTheMushroom · Today 21:01

Well! This thread has been like catnip to our resident TRA interruptarons. I count four so far - all desperate in their own way to convince us that there are trans children as young as 4 and that we should totally affirm this.
Coming out with such utter nonsense as "the brain body map tells them" (not how that works at all - the brain maps the body you have not the body you think you should have) and the inevitable "but some people are intersex"
And "they just know, all right!"

It's not ok to confuse and mislead children in a way that leads them to eventually pump their bodies with dangerous drugs and mutilate themselves with "gender affirming surgery"
Those posters on here who are trying to justify this horrendous cruelty with ridiculous word salads, debunked "science" and emotional blackmail are the lowest of the low

You do not affirm a fucking four year old boy who tells you he's a girl. What the Hell is WRONG with you? He's a CHILD he'll believe you.

Mushroomcat judges you and so do I.

Your cat looks like Salem from Sabrina the Teenage Witch. I am imagine being judged in his voice.

High School Comedy GIF
Imdunfer · Today 21:11

Imdunfer · Today 20:58

Do I think that transphobic, male phobic and female phobic parents could create a gender conflicted child.

Yes of course they can.

Should read homophobic not transphobic.

Imdunfer · Today 21:09

Imdunfer · Today 21:02

No it was about her husband being a transphobe. It's all available in their own words even though they have tried to remove them from the internet. I read the originals with my jaw dropping that this pair of transphobic parents could have become so influential in Mermaids.

Should read homophobe not transphobe. He preferred to believe he had a girl than to risk having a gay boy.

Soontobe60 · Today 21:08

Lacksie · Today 16:47

Ah, So no then. 😂.

Since I spend several hours explaining this earlier , I certainly won't waste any more of my time.

Phew! That’s a relief.

Imdunfer · Today 21:08

ArabellaScott · Today 21:04

Her husband was homophobic. He couldn't stand the thought of a little boy playing with 'girl toys'.

Yes sorry, I used the wrong word in haste.

NotBadConsidering · Today 21:08

Trans people are simply trans. Investigating why is missing the point.

Trans - and detrans - people are individuals, all deserving of respect. She can answer that question herself.

Call me an old stick-in-the-mud, but I’m of the opinion we should be clear about what is being treated before we sterilise children, remove their fertility, cut off their breasts, or take them to Thailand for genital surgery on their 16th birthday.

“Simply trans” doesn’t cut it, and anyone who thinks it does should not have a say in the care of children. It’s the core of this as a scandal that doctors in leading paediatric institutions have taken “simply trans” as enough to justify the treatments they’ve given. And no one can even explain it.

Soontobe60 · Today 21:07

Lacksie · Today 16:31

So have you or have you not accepted the first step- that it is entirely plausible that a persons neurocognitive awareness/ experience of their sex, could be incongruent with their anatomy?

If so , then we can move on to address the misunderstandings about how we respond to this (eg the idea that "affirming" someone's experience of gender is the same as a clinician pretending someone has a rubber limb)...

Edited

One can ‘affirm’ that someone holds a particular belief, that doesn’t mean one agrees with that belief.
Many people with dementia believe that they can see scary things that are not there - it’s a common symptom. Doctors will treat their fears with anti psychotic drugs. If a 5 year old girl has somehow got the idea that she’s really a boy, the adults around her should be reassuring her that she is, indeed, a girl.

ArabellaScott · Today 21:04

Her husband was homophobic. He couldn't stand the thought of a little boy playing with 'girl toys'.

Imdunfer · Today 21:02

Lacksie · Today 20:25

Oh you mean susie green? Her daughter is definitely trans. It definitely wasn't about a play kitchen.

Edited

No it was about her husband being a transphobe. It's all available in their own words even though they have tried to remove them from the internet. I read the originals with my jaw dropping that this pair of transphobic parents could have become so influential in Mermaids.

Tears0fTheMushroom · Today 21:01

Well! This thread has been like catnip to our resident TRA interruptarons. I count four so far - all desperate in their own way to convince us that there are trans children as young as 4 and that we should totally affirm this.
Coming out with such utter nonsense as "the brain body map tells them" (not how that works at all - the brain maps the body you have not the body you think you should have) and the inevitable "but some people are intersex"
And "they just know, all right!"

It's not ok to confuse and mislead children in a way that leads them to eventually pump their bodies with dangerous drugs and mutilate themselves with "gender affirming surgery"
Those posters on here who are trying to justify this horrendous cruelty with ridiculous word salads, debunked "science" and emotional blackmail are the lowest of the low

You do not affirm a fucking four year old boy who tells you he's a girl. What the Hell is WRONG with you? He's a CHILD he'll believe you.

Mushroomcat judges you and so do I.

The kind of “girl” that a boy who identifies as a girl thinks he is
BackToLurk · Today 21:00

Lacksie · Today 20:13

they know trans people exist and just respect that. It's really not hard.

the problem is that there are a lot of people who have become convinced through the media/ social media, that if they do this, words will lose all meaning, no one will be able to describe anything anymore, terrible things will befall all the precious women and children, and society as we know it will collapse.

This reply indicates that you have little to no understanding of where those of us who critique trans ideology from a feminist perspective are coming from. The sneery “all the precious women and children” is also very revealing.

MyAmpleSheep · Today 20:58

Lacksie · Today 19:29

I hope she contributes too! It wasn't my intention to speak over her:

However, since “we simply don’t know”, don’t you think we should find out before taking non-trivial steps. how do you suppose we find this out? It's not an experiment we can conduct. And since humans live in communities, how much value would it ultimately have? It's an interesting thought experiment/ hypothetical which has very limited meaningful practical application,

Edited

So, the fundamental basis of having "trans" children, from which they are given puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, life altering surgery and suffer lifelong complications, is simply of questionable "value", with "very limited meaningful practical application"?

That seems criminally reckless to me. Do you not think we have any responsibility at all?

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Imdunfer · Today 20:58

Lacksie · Today 19:39

Do people really think this is what being trans is about? Dig deep. The profound distress and disorientation that can come from gender dysphoria. The relentless desire- desperation in many cases - to pursue social and medical transition with all the consequences that can bring. You think this is about a play kitchen? You truly believe that's an adequate explanation?

Do I think that transphobic, male phobic and female phobic parents could create a gender conflicted child.

Yes of course they can.

OldCrone · Today 20:57

Lacksie · Today 20:25

Oh you mean susie green? Her daughter is definitely trans. It definitely wasn't about a play kitchen.

Edited

Do you know them personally?

I suppose since she has pretended that her son was a girl from a young age, he never went through puberty and was castrated on his 16th birthday, it's all he's ever known. Is that what you mean by "definitely trans"?

MyAmpleSheep · Today 20:54

Lacksie · Today 19:39

Do people really think this is what being trans is about? Dig deep. The profound distress and disorientation that can come from gender dysphoria. The relentless desire- desperation in many cases - to pursue social and medical transition with all the consequences that can bring. You think this is about a play kitchen? You truly believe that's an adequate explanation?

I think the explanation for some people is a cushier prison to be in, or a chance to wear spinny skirts and undress with the laydeez.

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MyAmpleSheep · Today 20:52

HenriettaSwanLeavitt2 · Today 19:30

@TransParentlyAnnoyed People or either trans or they aren't.

There are plenty of people on trans reddit who are unsure of whether they are trans or not. There are posters who say they were, and now they're not and posters who say that they 'feel trans' some days and not others.

FWIW my neighbour was. And now very much isn't.

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Tears0fTheMushroom · Today 20:29

HenriettaSwanLeavitt2 · Today 18:50

Though it is fair to say that the experience varies with the telling.

That's one way of putting it 😂

Lacksie · Today 20:25

OldCrone · Today 20:20

The mother actually blamed the father. In an earlier interview I'm sure she said that she was also horrified about her son's liking for "girls' toys" and girls' clothes, but later she claimed that she thought he would just grow up to be gay and she was OK with that.

She definitely blamed the boy's father though, although she was the one who took her son to America for puberty suppressing drugs and then Thailand to be castrated on his 16th birthday. She also took over Mermaids and changed it into a trans grooming organisation for gender confused children.

Oh you mean susie green? Her daughter is definitely trans. It definitely wasn't about a play kitchen.

OldCrone · Today 20:20

Lacksie · Today 19:54

Ah of course. Blame the primary care giver- usually the mother of course .

The mother actually blamed the father. In an earlier interview I'm sure she said that she was also horrified about her son's liking for "girls' toys" and girls' clothes, but later she claimed that she thought he would just grow up to be gay and she was OK with that.

She definitely blamed the boy's father though, although she was the one who took her son to America for puberty suppressing drugs and then Thailand to be castrated on his 16th birthday. She also took over Mermaids and changed it into a trans grooming organisation for gender confused children.

Lacksie · Today 20:13

TransParentlyAnnoyed · Today 20:02

Why not just leave trans people alone? That's an option.

As is not being constantly negative about them, making generalisations and talking about them as though they aren't individuals - part of a tiny minority who you don't need to understand, just accept.

My friends don't understand what being trans is, but they know trans people exist and just respect that. It's really not hard.

they know trans people exist and just respect that. It's really not hard.

the problem is that there are a lot of people who have become convinced through the media/ social media, that if they do this, words will lose all meaning, no one will be able to describe anything anymore, terrible things will befall all the precious women and children, and society as we know it will collapse.

BackToLurk · Today 20:08

TransParentlyAnnoyed · Today 19:49

Trans - and detrans - people are individuals, all deserving of respect. She can answer that question herself.

Fair enough. You must surely acknowledge though that, logically, KB was either mistaken when she was (like your child) convinced she was a boy or she is mistaken now she is no longer convinced of that?