A Man in a dress- how would you feel?

People should wear whatever they like but I don’t get the disingenuous claims that it’s equivalent to women wearing trousers. That’s about practicality. I can’t think of many situations where female coded clothing is more practical. Heels never are. Maybe hot weather - which is why cultures that grew in hot climates have many dress and skirt type items for men I suppose.

But norms change over time. In the 16th century men wire gorgeous clothes, high heels and makeup. Boys didn’t wear trousers until they were about 4. Why should dresses not be unisex?

Well maybe society should work towards making the fact that some men like wearing clothes that have been associated with women ok. It might remove a lot of the forbidden thrill from it and would definitely help stop this whole genderborg in its tracks.
I mean, if men can wear dresses and have long hair and makeup, then someone wearing them cannot claim to be a woman. I say make dresses unisex. And with pockets!

There's an English man I used to be 'friends' with on social media. He wears female-coded clothing every day. The photos he posted were usually of himself going to work in slightly dated office wear: straight skirt, neat blouse, heels. Looked smart. Is married with kids.

He never gave me the slightest sense that he was doing it for 'thrills' or trans-related motives. Just said it's what he likes wearing and everybody's got used to him. We talked a lot about how clothing's unfairly gendered and how this changes over time.

I think he's a classic eccentric comparable to Zack Pinsent, who specialises in Regency menswear and dresses in that style all the time. I certainly don't feel he's doing anything bad - though I hope he's branched out from those bloody stilettoes by now!

My thoughts, expressed with more verve than I'd have mustered!

I'd be fine - nay, proud - to accompany a man wearing a dress designed to be worn by men. These have been on the catwalks for at least 20 years, and I love me a bit of fashion.

If he's wearing a women's dress in what he imagines to be a womanish manner, I'm ghosting him faster than you can say 'Wooo!"

@Canadanian a female child will have been conditioned from birth on how to accentuate her assets to look feminine.

Clothing serves multiple purposes and in western society it signals many things including sexuality.
Men can wear dresses but in western culture it will not be associated with positive connotation's.

Oh, well your argument, has fallen apart then hasn’t it 🤷‍♀️

As a reminder, your argument was: they just look stupid when men don't have a waist and have thicker more muscular legs than women generally.

Really great job at feminism, btw. Making women feel great in their bodies! 👏🙄

Of course.

Are women without defined waists allowed to wear dresses? Or if we have muscular legs?

I have no idea. None of the men in my life would ever dream of wanting to wear womens clothes. If you look at any culture, most men and women want to wear whatever the culturally normal clothes for their sex are. That's what normal people who are getting on with their lives do.

I don't mind men in 'skirts' (kilts,sarongs) or 'dresses' (e.g. those long white tunics Saudis etc wear, same in other asian or african countries), - they're designed for male bodies. A hard no to a man in clothes designed for women's bodies, e.g. small waisted spinny skirts or mini skirts - they just look stupid when men don't have a waist and have thicker more muscular legs than women generally do. High heels also don't usually work with men's legs and usually much bigger feet. Of course, it can work with a man whose body is similar in proportions to women's.

So your question is how would I feel if...? I'd be fine if the outfit actually suited them and didn't make them look stupid or tragic.

Before Eddie Izzard became Suzie or Eddie, I'd sometimes see him strut down Dean Street in Soho, in high heeled boots and a skirt and jacket and a bit of make up. He looked great, but he wasn't pretending to be a woman, clearly wasn't pretending to be anything other than 'himself'.

I'd be far more concerned if it were my husband, whose new and unusual behaviours would undoubtedly affect me. Friend or colleague, wear what you want mate.

I got served in a restaurant recently by a young man wearing a skirt and tights. He wasn't trying to pass himself off as a woman. No problem, this is his business in that setting.

It's not a "silly" example, it's an extreme example to highlight that "oh I don't care what anyone wears" is a trite response. There are boundaries, clothing can be used to intimidate or demean other people, and these impacts are often political or aligned to power structures.

And now it is you voicing vehement, dangerous prejudice. If you are counting yourself amongst the women who played a pivotal, indispensable role in the gay rights movement, then what a betrayal to now be the person saying ‘men who wear gender non conforming clothes are all fetishists’ (because that IS what you’ve been saying - this thread isn’t about trans people, and many gender critical feminists on here are fine to let people wear whatever they want). Are you not ashamed?

That's a silly example , of course a KKK hood would be worn with the intention of intimidation , does your dress intimidate anyone? You wearing trousers offend anyone? A man in a kilt is a fetish?

If a man what's to wear a dress because they like wearing a dress isn't anymore offensive than a woman wearing trousers.
i personally don't care if someone is wearing a maga hat despite it being completely opposite to me politically , everyone should have the right to wear whatever they want to regardless of my sensitivities and politics despite me thinking inner thoughts

I think perhaps gender critical people (note: ‘gender critical’ specifically means being critical of the imposition of gender stereotypes!) have become somewhat more skeptical thanks to the likes of Eddie Izzard. Back in the day we would tend to applaud his ‘they’re not women’s clothes, they’re my clothes’ claim. Excellent, good for him!
But then … oh dear. The disillusion as we find out about him being proud of chasing teenage girls out of the ladies loo which he decided he’d use to swap clothes rather than the gents, wondering if he can be a lesbian and so on.

No, I'm neither breathtakingly stupid or cruel. I'm a women that's had to live for 70 years under the patriarchy. And like most women worldwide I have suffered and been influenced accordingly. And please do not conflate two separate issues. Very few women historically (or today) would've thought of gay men as perverts. I think you'll find that straight women of my generation played pivotal and indispensable roles in the gay rights movement, from politics to grassroots activism and cultural advocacy. It is men, not women, who voiced the most vehement prejudice and indeed inflicted appalling violence upon the gay community.

Its you claiming GP must have had evidence, so I don’t why you think it’s ME who should have checked that, rather than you.

You are welcome to your opinions but they are hateful. When you say people choosing to wear certain clothes must be fetishists / perverts / whatever it is you’re saying, I don’t know how you don’t hear the echos from the past of people accusing all gay men of being perverts etc. You are entitled to your opinions, but they are breathtakingly stupid and cruel 🤷‍♀️

Really?

KKK hood?
"Make me a sammich, bitch!" T shirt?
Official work lanyard in the colours of a movement that you believe validates human rights abuses?

No issues?

I didn't say that at all, did I. I said I don't know and that I can only assume Greyson Perry's sources. Perhaps you'd care to look up the definition of assumption in the OED, as you seem rather confused by the concept. As for the rest, it is my personal opinion that a lot of men wear women's clothing for sexual arousal. If you are trying to tell me that I'm not entitled to my own opinion, then perhaps you should stop engaging in open threads.

I don't give a shit what anyone else wears tbh

I think it's generally pretty easy to tell who is doing it for a fetish and who is being genuine.

Really? So how do you tell which men are genuine perverts?

I admire men and women who are gender nonconforming.

I think it's generally pretty easy to tell who is doing it for a fetish and who is being genuine.