NHS bans transwomen from female space

I guess you never heard about this woman being raped by a transwoman in a on a woman's ward: https://www.medicalbrief.co.za/uk-hospital-tells-police-patient-could-not-have-been-raped-since-attacker-was-transgender/

Or that there have been over 5000 sexual assaults on women in hospitals.

Sex segregation is a result of the society we live in. A pragmatic choice given the actual level of male violence.

and since you can’t define why you don’t see transwomen as men the rest of your argument is vapourising

Um, men are inherently violent. Women are inherently vulnerable. Rape and Domestic Violence proves this.

You also forget privacy and dignity away from the male gaze. Feminists fought so hard, since the Urinary Leash (google it) to carve out female only spaces for our safe as well as privacy and dignity. Women are now more at risk than when our fore feminists fought so hard for these spaces. You do what you want but I will not join you or anyone else in dropping trousers and taking a big dump on their headstones, while telling them that 'what they achieved was for nothing', it 'wasn't needed' and they 'shouldn't have bothered'.

No male is a woman.

There is The Corridor at Stoke Mandeville which might possibly fit a hundred or so of those bed-stretcher things on wheels, if they were put touching each other all down both sides of it, but I think the plural is hyperbole really. I am unsure they have that many bed-stretchers, for a start.

Or are the patients supposed to have brought their own folding chairs, or be sitting on the corridor floor or leaning against the walls?

I also absolutely do not believe a hospital was doing emergency surgery on people crammed in a corridor with literally hundreds of people (which was what the poster claimed, though he may not have realised he did so). How would they have any chance at a sterile environment, such as surgery needs to have?

(yes, yes, I know prep was done "in a cubicle divided into two cramped spaces", but the muddled thinking remains intact for all of that.)

I would also question why society is going along with the idea these men actually require their own third spaces or that we should give them third spaces as a consolation for maintaining single-sex spaces. They are men who do not have a medical condition, they have a sexual preference/fetish for either anatomically or sartorially copying women. I don't see why a society should rearrange itself in terms of legal, health, or sanitary provision for men with this preference.

Living standards are falling in Western countries and we can barely afford normal state provisions in terms of health care and social services, why are we spending so much time and money that we really don't have free to spend on accommodating a group of men and the aspect of their sex lives that they carry out in public spaces?

I support gender neutral spaces as helpful for families and carers because that is a genuine societal need but I don't support us rearranging our public spaces for men who can't just keep their sexual interests to themselves.

"Swarmed by TRAs" is Reddit's natural state, given that everyone not a TRA is chucked off the site.

Male TRAs don't want individual spaces. They want to be placed with women at their most vulnerable, to make them uncomfortable and have power over them by violating their boundaries and controlling the mostly female staff to use incorrect pronouns and kowtow to their demands.

Anywhere there is vulnerable people, you will find people desperate to harm them. There is no middle-ground compromise with TRAs. Their whole thing is a sadist's power trip.

I know I'm late to the discussion, but how do you suggest we know if they've had their penis removed? It's not like we can ask and look. And as they're male, we can't take their word for it. And hospital staff wouldn't give out that information. So how would we ever know for sure?

Also removing the penis still leaves the male body. The male voice (which would trigger a traumatised a woman as a male voice is so distinct and cannot truly be disguised), male jawbone, adams apple, male height and male strength (so he can still attack), male gait, etc etc. A male with his penis removed is still recognisably a male in every single other way, and will traumatise women and girls.

It isn't workable either for people saying they have any professional qualification: falsely claiming to be a doctor will get you prosecuted if you try to make it real; as we are seeing at present, falsely claiming to be a lawyer while working for the White House will get you hounded by the media (and will get you precisely nowhere in court or Chambers); falsely claiming to have academic qualifications that you don't will either mean you don't get the job you have applied for or get you removed from your post at an academic institution; pretending to have had a career in the armed forces is rightly condemned if the liar is caught out and will get him prosecuted (the Walter Mitty Hunters Club do their best to make sure of that).

Absolutely Wishesandhorses.

Yes but that was MEN.

Men MATTER.

Women..... are just walking resourcy type things, for men to use.

Hence the absolute bafflement, confusion and dismay at this whole idea that these resourcy kind of thingies get rights too. I mean, what are you supposed to do if you can't just use them and their stuff at will? How does that even work?

But it makes an absolute haystack of any idea that anyone ever thought these men were anything other than men, or that anyone involved has the faintest issue in knowing who is of which sex in order to know if they matter or not.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ParamedicsUK/comments/1x6qcwc/nhse_will_be_forcing_trans_pts_into_wards/

The conversation on the paramedics subreddit was a little more balanced, though not by much. It seems to have been swarmed by TRAs.

Oh, it is better than that as crass goes. It ignores every single woman who is trying and failing to conceive (for whatever reason) and feeling despairing as a result. Such a nasty thing to have said.

I agree. Being on a hospital ward does tend to reveal your sex. I genuinely would have thought that in situations where a hospital stay on a ward is required, a side room would be preferred if somebody wishes to conceal their sex from fellow patients.

l’m all for a good risk assessment but loving the ironic statement about “ Employers must review and update risk assessments before introducing any changes to working practice that affect health, safety and wellbeing of members”…..how many risk assessments were done on women using supposedly single sex spaces or services compromised by trans inclusion?

Quite.

Thanks @Wishesandhorses. I can’t say I have much sympathy for men realising they can’t become women. None of us can change sex, and we all have things we’d like to be but can’t.

On reflection, I suspect a lot of this comes down to male wishes being refused. Some transwomen seem to argue that their wishes should override those of most women who don’t want to share intimate, women-only spaces with men. It's not about balancing rights, it's about them.

And indeed the media frames this that way "transwomen being denied access to women’s wards". Not about "Women to get single sex wards, not based on gender ID". Or "NHS to find single rooms for trans people for everyone's privacy".

And this debate gets reopened again and again when we won the Supreme Court judgement. They just don't seem to want to accept "no" means "no".

There’s another thread entitled „ physios“ but as I’m interested in what other peoples healthcare unions are posting in response, this is the Chartered Society of Physios spiel where of course it’s all about trans exclusion
”The CSP continues to oppose trans exclusion in healthcare settings. We will be updating our advice for members on providing single sex services to reflect the guidance.
Employers must review and update risk assessments before introducing any changes to working practice that affect health, safety and wellbeing of members.
However, we are concerned that this will lead to trans exclusion, therefore we urge NHS trusts in England to pay particular attention to the sections covering the obligations towards trans patients and to look for gender neutral solutions where possible.
We recognise that this guidance is deeply concerning for transgender members and patients who continue to be at risk of facing hostility or exclusion in spaces aligned with their biological sex both in their workplace and whilst receiving treatment. For individuals who may be forced to 'out' themselves at work or whilst receiving treatment this raises additional fear of harassment, humiliation or physical danger.“
l’m all for a good risk assessment but loving the ironic statement about “ Employers must review and update risk assessments before introducing any changes to working practice that affect health, safety and wellbeing of members”…..how many risk assessments were done on women using supposedly single sex spaces or services compromised by trans inclusion?

You mean there’s literally no money to accommodate the desires of men who wish to be women right?

I recently had emergency surgery. Crammed in a corridor with literally hundreds of people

The literal hyperbole is off the scale with every comment that you make. It must be a stressful life with everything turned up to 11.

The fundamental issue is that this creates a visible, separate area protected for 'real women' which men cannot enter, which means men facing that there is a sort of real woman that a man can never be. That's the core injury for some, and I do have sympathy. For others, it's merely loss of access to an exciting experience and rage at women being permitted boundaries. But the fact is that a man is not and never can be a biological woman, and that women have needs and issues of their own which require provision for them. This cannot, obviously, be predicated on a man's feelings.

The only solution to this really is time and patience as it is gradually accepted that transition is fine and great and welcomed, but has limits in how far its reality can go. And it's a good point for those who said 'be kind' to now reflect on how kind they were really being when they led those men up this path to its inevitable and painful end point instead of working on this understanding a lot earlier.

"Crammed in a corridor with literally hundreds of people, ...."

Jeeze how big was that hospital, I mean the one near me has a long, long corridor but you couldn't fit literally hundreds of people in it.

Trans people literally demand the impossible. My theory is that its similar to gambling addicts who seem to be chasing 'wins' but are apparently addicted to losing.

I'm confused about the level of trans hysteria over this.

Isn't the guidance that trans can often now get side rooms? Which most patients want, and surely if trans you would be concerned about the likelihood of outing on a ward, it's not terribly private it's just curtains between patients.

If not that, then probably mixed, and worst case a mens ward...so..."hi I'm Jane. I'm trans and I'd like to be called "she" please."

What they can't do is put a trans woman on a woman's ward and pretend it's single sex. Because it obviously isn't...

People hate this on here but to me you would be who you say you are.

How did that work out for Rachel Dolezal when she said she was black,@totino?

I’m given to understand that in TRA circles Wobberley isn’t as popular as she’d like to think.