So you are perfectly happy with more women being traumatised in the first place and then ensuring that there is no place that is safe from the perpetrators of such heinous offences because oh, well, men are just like that and it's not as if anybody can do something really radical like keep the males out of their spaces?

Even more rubbish - Rachel Dolezal being one example and trans identified people being calling themselves a 'community' doesn't alter the fact that you can change sex/race or you can't. And we all know that not only can you not change either of those things, but to those who already are a particular sex or gender, it's pretty offensive for someone to adopt stereotypes in order to try and identify into that characteristic.

Btw, Rachel Dolezal wasn't mixed race. She was white, she'd just darkened her skin and permed her hair to try and appear to have physical characteristics associated with being black.

Ian Dunt is triggered by this.
Always a good barometer that the correct decision has been made.

trans women and patriarchy mutually reject each other

Rubbish, transwomen are men and often - in my experience - demonstrate all the male entitlement that patriarchy grants them.

trans women and patriarchy mutually reject each other

Gender is the mechanism by which patriarchy oppresses and gender identity is the manifestation of patriarchy in an individual. As one is derived from the other, claiming they’re mutually exclusive is just silly.

The authenticity or otherwise of someone's sense of gender identity has exactly zero relevance to the risk their sexed body poses to others. It's the sex-linked risk I care about.

👍🏼

Perfect

Prison Encountering Patriarchy Rejection.

PERP for short.

Somebody should really investigate the phenomenon of trans women waiting to reject the patriarchy until after they have been arrested for a violent or sexual crime.

I would argue that it's very difficult to talk about trans women as a group because the definition is subjective, and that it is more accurate to consider these people as men, but I acknowledge hat there is a range of opinions on this matter.

A trans woman can be violent, she can be a sexual predator, (and so can women, in general) but she will not be in those circles because trans women and patriarchy mutually reject each other.

So a transwoman who rapes or sexually assaults women is doing it for some other, very womanly reason. I see.

Didn't Russell Brand once say he rejected the patriarchy?

totino
No outcome is perfect, but if any other treatment had regret rates as stunningly low, nobody would say a peep.

How many cases have you ever heard of in which people who had an operation to deal with peritonitis regretted it? Or people who had their faulty gall bladder removed? Or who had a stent fitted and as a result did not die? Cataract surgery doesn't seem to get a lot of bad press from people who have had it done during the past ten years. Nor does the surgical repair of a broken leg.

By comparison there is a remarkably high regret rate for penectomy, orchidectomy and mastectomy which have been performed for cosmetic reasons. This is becoming increasingly apparent as the fad fades and its victims wake up to what they have done to themselves.

And so we circle back to the historic, longstanding social contract that existed whereby the decent, caring, kind men didn't want or need to be in our SS spaces. In the main they had wives, daughters, sisters whom they wished to be safe.
GC wasn't a thing because it wasn't necessary.

On the contrary. Transwomen and patriarchy are one and the same. It's the patriarchy on steroids.

I don't want a gamete-based social order, but since FWS won I guess you'll all get to test drive this for a while. I have my thoughts about how it'll go. (I live in a country with self declaration.)

That was the norm for over 100 years - until the last 10-15 years. So those that are older than 15 already know how it will go.

but a women's space that is only for some women (cis) is not a proper women's space to me.

There is only one type of women, and that is female. A male with penis and testicles is a man, not any type of woman. And any decent, empathic non-sociopathic human being will know that females needs our hard one female only spaces for safety, privacy and dignity. Males have no place in any female space. This does not need explaining to any decent human being.

trans women and patriarchy mutually reject each other

Men who say they are women and who are in jail, are there for sexually related crimes at 3 times the rate of men who say they are not women. So using statistics, it looks like 'trans women' or men who say they are women, are 3 times more patriarchial than other men.

@totino What evidence do you have for your claim?

You really, really don't get it, and I'm not sure at this point if it's deliberate or you genuinely don't get it. It's "male = rape". Transwomen are male. Transwoman is redundant as is saying schizophrenic male, white male, black male, asthmatic male, etc.

You really seem to think transwomen are some type of...third sex or something.

Transwomen = male. Male = rape. That's the point.

Could you explain this comment please @totino . I don't want anyone to feel afraid, but a women's space that is only for some women (cis) is not a proper women's space to me.
I think you’ll find that a women’s space is for all women it’s just not for men - any men, even those deluded fools who think they can change sex.

biology isn't destiny - Yes it is, all humans are destined to stay humans because no humans can change into another species, so the Furries are wrong, they're not whatever 'animal' that floats their boat is, they're just a plain old human being and destined to stay that way. All humans are destined to die as whatever sex they were when they were born because no human can change sex, so 'trans' are wrong, no matter what they persuade themselves they've transformed into in the interim.

trans women and patriarchy mutually reject each other. - as stated they are the patriarchy, the demand that all consider them to be woman and the violence, the bullying, the shroud waving drama that's directed at anyone, especially women, that doesn't comply with their wishes is the definition of the power of the patriarchy. So the idea that 'tran's' iding males make the best feminist's is manifestly absurd.

There is only one type of woman, Adult Female Human, women's spaces are only big enough for them because they're the only ones that belong in them.

The world doesn't exist according to your imagination, desires and expectations, humans are a part of reality, they don't create it. Humans have a shared perception of the world around them and those whose perceptions don't tally with the rest are the ones who have a faulty perception of reality. That's not reality's fault or the fault of the rest of us, it's all on them and them alone.

Wilful Ignorance is one of the defining factors of Stupid, the others are Conformity and Outsourcing Critical Thinking skills to a third party.

Go to Specsavers.

Adding a penis to a place where women are creates a rape and pregnancy risk that was previously absent. This particular penis owner might choose not to rape this time, but that gives no assurance that the next penis owner won't rape.

No one would ever ask "so if I don't fasten my seatbelt, does that mean I am guaranteed to crash my car and fly through my windscreen?" Yet we recognise that failing to buckle up creates a risk that was previously absent.

"He might not rape you, so you're bigoted if you make him stay out" really isn't the compelling argument that r/trans have led you to believe that it is.

It also presents trans identified men as a homogenous group, which they really aren't.

Again, I think that if you genuinely care about a group's rights within the framework of human rights, your argument will be reality based. I can understand the argument for third spaces but TWAW just doesn't make sense on any terms.

I get the impression from some contributors that, despite their claims, either they don't care about trans rights, or don't believe that there is a need for trans rights. The absence of serious argument is odd.

I experience these kind of statements “trans women are the best feminists and challenging the patriarchy” etc as gaslighting reversal, DARVO

And the idea that transowmen reject the violence and abuse when they are over represented in prison for those offences beggars belief

trans women and patriarchy mutually reject each other

That's a nice theory, but not really. Transwoman demanding access to women's spaces is just another manifestation of male priviledge.

It starts from "woman is a non-man" fallacy (TW: I'm not comfortable as a man, so I must be a woman).
It continues with "I know better than women do" (TW: I know what a woman is so I can say it is me").
And it ends with "women are here to support my needs and wishes" (TW: 3rd spaces are not enough, I need to be accepted by women, I want to call myself a lesbian)

How does this thinking differ from patriarchy?

Biology isn’t destiny

but it is also rather important given we are animals not AI

and when men including transwomen start showing us they are not violent sexual beings we can revisit everything