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Original poster

NHS bans transwomen from female space

474 replies

LadyHelenaThistle · 15/10/2026 14:07

New guidelines out: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/10/15/nhs-bans-trans-women-female-spaces-supreme-court-ruling/

OP posts:
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OP posts:
Floisme · 15/10/2026 16:57

Good news. Disgracefully overdue but I'm choosing to be happy about it.

MissFancyDay · 15/10/2026 16:55

JT1999 · 15/10/2026 16:24

Whats the consensus on here about transwomen who have gone all the way and had a full reassignment surgery? Do you think this should still apply? Should they be put in a men's prison too?

Not trying to provoke an argument btw. I don't think someone with a penis should be allowed in women's spaces unless they're a very young kid with their mum, women's safety should be the priority. But transwomen get raped and sexually assaulted by men (and presumably other transwomen) too.

Edited

Well I am afraid that they are going to have to campaign for separate spaces everywhere.

It all moved too fast and the rapid gaining of trans rights which rode rough shod over women's rights happened by stealth while women were blinded by feeling that they had to be kind.

We have now woken up and are fighting to regain our rights. Quite frankly I don't think we have either the time nor the inclination to fight for transwomen's rights as well.

cheezncrackers · 15/10/2026 16:51

Well, I'm speechless. I never thought I'd live to see the day that the NHS actually agreed with biological sex!

Original poster
LadyHelenaThistle · 15/10/2026 16:50

AngleofRepose · 15/10/2026 16:41

So this guidance is about single-sex NHS staff facilities - like the changing rooms - but the news articles are about single-sex patient spaces? Are two sets of guidance out today?

Yes, thanks, OP, was just wondering that myself.

Show quote history

Seems the story is evolving. The Telegraph have updated their story to include the info about staff facilities. The BBC has now published their version;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cry83dyddv6no

This includes this: “In addition to the patient document of the guidance, NHSE has published advice for trusts on how to organise changing rooms, toilets and other single-sex facilities for staff.

Again, it says they should be used by people based on their biological sex, not their gender identity.”

Rear view of a person in a hospital gown being guided by a healthcare professional

Trans people should use hospital spaces according to biological sex, NHS England says

New guidance says trans patients should be cared for on single-sex hospital wards or bays that align with their biological sex.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cry83dyddv6no

OP posts:
NeverDropYourMooncup · 15/10/2026 16:48

JT1999 · 15/10/2026 16:24

Whats the consensus on here about transwomen who have gone all the way and had a full reassignment surgery? Do you think this should still apply? Should they be put in a men's prison too?

Not trying to provoke an argument btw. I don't think someone with a penis should be allowed in women's spaces unless they're a very young kid with their mum, women's safety should be the priority. But transwomen get raped and sexually assaulted by men (and presumably other transwomen) too.

Edited

Don't need a fully functioning penis to sexually assault anybody and a set of silicone implants doesn't change that.

SirChenjins · 15/10/2026 16:47

SirChenjins · 15/10/2026 16:46

The NHS is devolved, so not necessarily. Let's wait and see what Swinney says and does in response to this.

Show quote history

Sorry, quoted the wrong post.

That should have been in reply to @LadyHelenaThistle post from 16:38

AngleofRepose · 15/10/2026 16:47

I just checked NHS England publications. Looks like the patient/service user guidance has not been published yet.

edited for spelling

Notmycircusnotmyotter · 15/10/2026 16:46

Disappointed to see this is just for staff. Surely it's just as or more important that patients have the right to single sex wards and other spaces?

SirChenjins · 15/10/2026 16:46

LadyHelenaThistle · 15/10/2026 16:38

So this guidance is about single-sex NHS staff facilities - like the changing rooms - but the news articles are about single-sex patient spaces? Are two sets of guidance out today?

I thought this from the staff guidance looked okay?

“Organisations should clearly define the legitimate aim of any changes they make. This could include improving staff experience and improving the accessibility of facilities, as well as legal compliance. They should also put in place a monitoring and evaluation process to make sure that these outcomes are achieved – and to make adjustments if needed.“

So if Dr Upton were still at his hospital using the women’s changing room, then Fife would need to exclude him, stating the reason as legal compliance, then make sure he actually stopped using women’s facilities? Is that a fair way to read this?

Show quote history

The NHS is devolved, so not necessarily. Let's wait and see what Swinney says and does in response to this.

Notmycircusnotmyotter · 15/10/2026 16:44

About bloody time. Let's hope it's properly enforced.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 15/10/2026 16:44

@LadyHelenaThistle, re the guidance only being for staff, that’s correct. I’ve been scouring the NHSE publications site and it appears this is the only document published today. The press conference did talk about patient accommodation too, so I would have expected guidance on that too. Not sure what the holdup is.

JT1999 · 15/10/2026 16:44

Shedmistress · 15/10/2026 16:41

All the way where? Maybe they need a Eunach policy? Because there is NO such thing as 'Reassignment'. Just 'chopping your dick off'.

Show quote history

Lol, I was going to write something along the lines of "chopping it off" but I thought gender re-assignment sounded a bit more formal. Yes you can't re-assign your gender.

I agree what happens to certain men shouldn't be made a problem for women to have to deal with.

StSpiridian · 15/10/2026 16:41

Interesting the guidance makes mention of the Gender Recognition Act (which started a lot of attempts by trans extremists to remove the human rights of women and children in the 1st place).

In the GRA, section 12, it confirms men remain fathers whatever their GI beliefs or GRC status, and women remain mothers, whatever their GI beliefs or GRC status. So if you're a woman and give birth but have a GRC lying you're a man, you are still the mother of the baby.

This is important as abusive trans extremists have tried to coerce NHS Trusts and eg maternity staff to refer to a mum who says she's a man as a father/ dad. This is illegal and absue of the child. None of the NHS safeguarding teams have called it out or disciplined staff who harm and abuse children of transpeople in this way.

This has now gone through the courts - UK (judgement link childrenoftransitioners.org/six-children/ ) ECHR (June 2026 judgement https://www.matrixlaw.co.uk/news/challenge-to-registration-of-transgender-man-as-mother-declared-inadmissible/ ).

Lying about who a child's the mother/ father is has been found to be in breach of the child's human rights (and the UK Supreme Court found it to be emotional abuse of the child (in breach of the Children Act protecting children from abuse as well as the GRA) .

So I really hope NHS Trusts and child safeguarding teams start protecting the children involved.
Links here:
https://www.matrixlaw.co.uk/news/challenge-to-registration-of-transgender-man-as-mother-declared-inadmissible/
and
https://childrenoftransitioners.org/six-children/

Six Children – Childrenoftransitioners.org

https://childrenoftransitioners.org/six-children/

Shedmistress · 15/10/2026 16:41

JT1999 · 15/10/2026 16:24

Whats the consensus on here about transwomen who have gone all the way and had a full reassignment surgery? Do you think this should still apply? Should they be put in a men's prison too?

Not trying to provoke an argument btw. I don't think someone with a penis should be allowed in women's spaces unless they're a very young kid with their mum, women's safety should be the priority. But transwomen get raped and sexually assaulted by men (and presumably other transwomen) too.

Edited

All the way where? Maybe they need a Eunach policy? Because there is NO such thing as 'Reassignment'. Just 'chopping your dick off'.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/10/2026 16:41

Article says Telegraph has seen two sets of guidance, one for staff and one for patients. Maybe they will be publishing the patient one next?

AngleofRepose · 15/10/2026 16:41

LadyHelenaThistle · 15/10/2026 16:38

So this guidance is about single-sex NHS staff facilities - like the changing rooms - but the news articles are about single-sex patient spaces? Are two sets of guidance out today?

I thought this from the staff guidance looked okay?

“Organisations should clearly define the legitimate aim of any changes they make. This could include improving staff experience and improving the accessibility of facilities, as well as legal compliance. They should also put in place a monitoring and evaluation process to make sure that these outcomes are achieved – and to make adjustments if needed.“

So if Dr Upton were still at his hospital using the women’s changing room, then Fife would need to exclude him, stating the reason as legal compliance, then make sure he actually stopped using women’s facilities? Is that a fair way to read this?

Show quote history

So this guidance is about single-sex NHS staff facilities - like the changing rooms - but the news articles are about single-sex patient spaces? Are two sets of guidance out today?

Yes, thanks, OP, was just wondering that myself.

Original poster
LadyHelenaThistle · 15/10/2026 16:38

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 15/10/2026 16:01

Here we go folks - tooth combs at the ready:

https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/guidance-on-nhs-staff-facilities/

So this guidance is about single-sex NHS staff facilities - like the changing rooms - but the news articles are about single-sex patient spaces? Are two sets of guidance out today?

I thought this from the staff guidance looked okay?

“Organisations should clearly define the legitimate aim of any changes they make. This could include improving staff experience and improving the accessibility of facilities, as well as legal compliance. They should also put in place a monitoring and evaluation process to make sure that these outcomes are achieved – and to make adjustments if needed.“

So if Dr Upton were still at his hospital using the women’s changing room, then Fife would need to exclude him, stating the reason as legal compliance, then make sure he actually stopped using women’s facilities? Is that a fair way to read this?

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/10/2026 16:37

AngleofRepose · 15/10/2026 16:26

Possibly. However, if there is no money in their budget, then there is no money.

If there is money, but the NHS would rather spend it on something else, who is going to force them to spend it appropriately so that women have their single-sex spaces again?

Oh, I know! - That would be another tribunal. The same as we are having to do now.

Show quote history

I agree with you this will need to be tested in court.

RareGoalsVerge · 15/10/2026 16:36

AngleofRepose · 15/10/2026 16:06

The Code makes clear that if a service is provided only to women and trans women or only to men and trans men, it is not a single-sex service under the Equality Act 2010.

First weasely statement right from the start. Technically and legally correct, but worded back to front for obfuscation purposes, is what I'm reading.

Hmmm. Cue, I suspect, for all the "womens services" that are trans-inclusive to just need to put some smallprint on the bottom of any leaflet/poster/website saying "this is not a single-sex service under the Equality Act 2010 and both male and female people may be in attendance" which will allow some things like e.g. group therapies to continue as they are unchanged.

Which will at least be honest, and they won't be able to claim that they are offering single-sex services, but it could be a whole different fight to get single-sex services provided when they are needed.

AngleofRepose · 15/10/2026 16:33

One webpage of guidance, unless I'm missing something, has taken 18 months to publish.

ps. the guidance seems to be only for staff facilities?

Is there other guidance for service users/patients?

SirChenjins · 15/10/2026 16:32

JT1999 · 15/10/2026 16:24

Whats the consensus on here about transwomen who have gone all the way and had a full reassignment surgery? Do you think this should still apply? Should they be put in a men's prison too?

Not trying to provoke an argument btw. I don't think someone with a penis should be allowed in women's spaces unless they're a very young kid with their mum, women's safety should be the priority. But transwomen get raped and sexually assaulted by men (and presumably other transwomen) too.

Edited

Of course they should - they're men. Cutting off a part (any part) of your anatomy doesn't alter your sex.

The fact that men get raped doesn't mean women should have to budge up. It's also important to remember that there are far higher rates of sexual offences in the TIM population (either or without their penises) compared to men in both the male prison estate and the wider population.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 15/10/2026 16:28

JT1999 · 15/10/2026 16:24

Whats the consensus on here about transwomen who have gone all the way and had a full reassignment surgery? Do you think this should still apply? Should they be put in a men's prison too?

Not trying to provoke an argument btw. I don't think someone with a penis should be allowed in women's spaces unless they're a very young kid with their mum, women's safety should be the priority. But transwomen get raped and sexually assaulted by men (and presumably other transwomen) too.

Edited

Also, for the record, it has been found that for men who want to rape, removal of the penis actually makes the men more violent and more likely to do life-limiting damage with whatever they use as an implement to rape instead of the penis that they no longer have.

NO MEN IN WOMEN’S SPACES.

StealthTroublemaker · 15/10/2026 16:28

JT1999 · 15/10/2026 16:24

Whats the consensus on here about transwomen who have gone all the way and had a full reassignment surgery? Do you think this should still apply? Should they be put in a men's prison too?

Not trying to provoke an argument btw. I don't think someone with a penis should be allowed in women's spaces unless they're a very young kid with their mum, women's safety should be the priority. But transwomen get raped and sexually assaulted by men (and presumably other transwomen) too.

Edited

Yes. They are male do belong in male spaces. Why would they not? Unless you believe a woman is just a man without a penis, in which way are they women?