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I don't consider spaces with trans and cis women mixed. I consider them women's spaces, which I prefer to SSS, because I don't go in for bioessentialism

’bioessentialism’ here meaning ‘recognising how mammals reproduce’.

Can you not see that while this argument might be popular on certain parts of Reddit and bluesky, it self destructs on contact with reality? At best it suggests a lack of concern for anyone’s rights.

I believe that those people who discuss their belief that male people can somehow be female, also use that ‘born’ that way sound bite to support their gaslighting approach to pronouns. Because apparently, it is only our ‘belief’ that pronouns were established to be sex based and not claimable by those who demand to be treated as if they are the sex they are not.

They then use that argument to dismiss any safeguarding concerns raised about children having to use people’s demanded language that doesn’t match their sex category.

I hope they did as well - and surgeons have knives!

Apart from domestic violence and sexual violence, most victims of male violence, including murder, are men. So using your logic, all male prisoners should go into women's prisons for their own protection.

Prison statistic suggest a higher proportion of trans women in prison have committed sexual assaults than the other male inmates. So rather than having a go at women, I think you should take it up with trans women and men because they are actually the ones causing the problem.

I believe it is one of the mantra style phrases they use to attempt to give credibility to this position we have seen repeatedly on FWR. The position of ‘those male people have never been boys or men, always girls / women’. Wasn’t it mentioned only last week or so that Jenner was always a girl / woman athlete. Even when winning events as a male athlete.

Because if a male person is born ‘trans’ it means several things. It alludes that it is not a decision for these male people to make and removes any deliberacy from that identification. The identity then becomes leveraged as being innate and it should not be discussed else the person be considered transphobic. It also then allows false comparators with conditions such as neurodivergence and discussions around biological markers.

I think it is also supposed to add credibility to the ‘born in the wrong body’ messaging.

However, the glaring flaw in that entire theory that these male people just know they are female really, is about reference. Those people declaring they are something that they never were or never going to be are using their own self built perception of what that state of being is, but the reality is they could be describing anything. It will never be provable.

That person is though, always conceptualising themselves as a version of a male person. Never as a female person. That is the material reality of the position and the only logical explanation.

What ever experience that male person feels is ‘female’ is his own categorisation of how a female person interacts with the world around them. Which is likely built on perceptions built on stereotypes. Whereas however a female interacts with the world around them is always a ‘female reaction’ in reality. Because it was a reaction of a female person and never as a male person.

That is why some people attempt existential type explanations about how that person was ‘always a female person really’. But it is just philosophising and it never stands up to scrutiny. Hence we are transphobic for not accepting those statements. And the cycle continues.

I think Caridm's post was tongue in cheek, they were sending up the reaction you can expect from the unhinged and #BeKinders for saying 'claiming to be a woman '.
Unless I'm wrong and they're a unhinged type. 🤷

Please explain why you think stating a fact is transphobic? As we already know, it is impossible to change sex. We can use stereotypes to present as the opposite sex , but we’re still the same sex we have always been. If I put on a set of whiskers and a tail and call myself Kitty, I am just pretending to be a cat. I might believe I’m a cat, but I’m not. It’s all pretence. And that’s the whole thing with transgenderism - it’s a falsehood and a pretence.

Would you prefer, is claiming to be a woman?

Hilarious. Apart from the fact that you’re spouting nonsense (bioessentialism?), as the Equality Act stands, it is unlawful to discriminate on the grounds of sex, amongst 8 other protected characteristics. So, if a man who identifies as a woman - MHIAW (whose sex is male) is allowed access to SSS designated for the female sex, then ALL other males would have to be allowed access to those same spaces. Therefore your concerns about the vulnerability of MWIAW housed in male prisons, for example, is misplaced. If you had your way and those ‘vulnerable’ MWIAW are placed in the female prison estate, legally all the other male prisoners would be entitled to be placed there too.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, I thought it was a bit dodgy for patients, I'm glad it's not.

Transphobia is just a label for "I don't like what you are saying" it is so overused it doesn't mean anything anymore.

The question is valid, as that's what the patient would see - a male who pretends (to them) that he is a woman. Which would be rightfully concerning when the patient requested single sex care.

'who likes to pretend he’s a woman'...SERIOUSLY? 😱
Several posts have come very near to crossing the transphobia 'line' but you just went for it didn't you?! 😱

I hope s/he raised hell about it.

Wtf is a "woman born trans" when it's at home?
Where do they get this stuff?

I'll believe it when I see it.

Men do sexually assault other men, that’s true. But most sex predators prefer to attack women. So the risk of violence to men, whether or not they have had genital surgery, is nowhere near high enough to justify allowing them into women’s facilities.

Women only rarely commit sexual assaults, and a man, if assaulted by a woman, has a much better chance of fighting her off than a woman has of fighting off a male attacker.

All these factors support the reinstatement of single-sex facilities for women.

Edited to add: most assaults on trans-identifying men, as reported worldwide, seem to be either partner violence, disputes over drugs or related to male prostitution.

@totino If you expect us to accept that transwomen are vulnerable, I’d have thought you’d be able to see that women are too. Or are you saying that there are differences between transwomen and women? Surely not.

Without a penis, there can be no rape. That's the law.

Without a penis ejaculating into an unconsenting woman's vagina, there can be no forced pregnancy. That's biology.

It is misogyny to put women at risk of forced pregnancy by allowing anyone born with a penis into a women's space.

100% of the origin of what you describe as "toxic masculinity" is men wanting to exploit women for reproduction whilst impeding other men from doing likewise.

Women are inherently vulnerable. We can be forcibly made pregnant. No man is vulnerable to that. It's unfeminist and antiwomen to pretend that this isn't the case.

Wow.

Yes, HMP Saughton has a unit/wing where 'trans' prisoners and other vulnerable prisoners are placed, those who are at risk from other prisoners, etc.

I think it's important to remember that when they are talking about male/female 'wards' they are actually talking about bays. A single ward may have, say, 4 bays. They can designate 2 female bays and 2 male bays. As long as they provide toilet facilities in a single room that can be locked, there is no mixed sex breach if the bays are single-sex. Of course, most patients are able to walk around the ward, so there is nothing to stop a man walking into the female bay or a woman walking into a male bay.