Old Vic toilets change

See how easy it is.

This will be the practical issue in trying to make single sex the 'other', small additional provision. The sheer number of women needing to use them. And interesting even under the pressure applied to use the mixed sex, women were preferring to queue and use less pleasant facilities.

I suspect too a lot of passionate be kinding women in the moment will quietly head into the single sex, and rely on it there as a fall back should their initial attempt to be kind mean entering a space with a man they're afraid of.

I was at the National Gallery last week and refused to use the mixed toilets - which were clearly converted from separate men’s and women’s toilets as described above, with 2 completely separate rooms with fully enclosed cubicles, floor to ceiling doors etc. I wasn’t happy to be waiting in a queue with just men behind a closed door, with those cubicles. And I wasn’t the only woman walking away from them. There are then toilets that are labelled as single sex. The womens are separate cubicles behind a closed door off the corridor, The cubicles are completely enclosed, floor to ceiling doors, with wash basins etc in each cubicle. There was general moaning in the queue that it took a lot longer - and one woman came in wanting only to wash her hands and was very confused. It was also noticeable that the individual cubicles smelt while the central corridor which the cubicles are off didn’t - presumably as it was being ventilated as people opened the main door to enter.

I may have ranted at them a bit in the survey they sent me - since it was about the Renoir exhibition I doubt it will even get to relevant people but I thought it worth saying that they had clearly spent a lot of money on refurbishment and it was a shame they’d ended up with facilities that were less safe and less hygienic.

Great news, thanks for sharing.

It is not too painful to provide appropriate facilities, is it? Makes you wonder why they didn't do this in the first place.

Well that's good news about the Old and Young Vic as I've been refusing to go there for several years due to this. I complain every time I go to either Southwark Playhouse (which is a LOT) as they always ask for feedback afterwards. It's definitely worse at Borough, more men in the ladies. And as for the Elephant 😱🤬

Out of the 3 different venues, in terms of absolute safety, I would say the ones at Southwark Playhouse Borough are best because of the door gap, if I am correct on that being the only venue with these. Of course they should not be for both sexes. But toilets are vulnerable to misuse. The floor-gap prevents a lot of misuse and aids with rescue (medical or otherwise) because if someone is unsafe, it can be seen and heard.

I think voyeurism is awful and it will happen in the Southwark Playhouse Borough set-up, as well as making everyone feel uncomfortable. It still not good and rightly is against building regulations. However, there’s so much that goes on in toilets of which people are not aware. It’s a mile away from a trial going on that is relevant in terms of toilets as a location of abuse.

If the Old Vic changed the cubicle partitions and doors from the last pictures I have seen, particularly if they brightened it up for visually impaired people (and contrast colours are needed) and had doors resting in the open position, they would be best.

I haven’t seen the three venues toilets so am going off photos and the comments on here.

I was there that night! (I had gone to the loo at the pub before, as the Old Vic's toilet setup is so infuriating). What did you think of the show?
My husband and I HATED it! So much! I love Les Mis, but found ZERO charm, zero good lyrics, zero good tunes, and not a great production. I am currently plagued with some earworm of the Luison song (the annoying puppet!).
My husband said, "At least there wasn't an interval," but I pointed out that with an interval, we could have left even earlier! Such an annoying show (for us). I thought I would love it, but... am feeling really angry about it. Some songs seemed like trying to copy Les Mis songs, but without emotion, decent lyrics and interesting/likable characters. ?

Southwark's borough theatre removed all urinals from the 'gents' (because women were going in there due to confusing signs and the men didn't like it), so now there is even LESS provision! They did this instead of changing signs back to gents and ladies, because that makes some men sad. It's insane and affects interval bar sales, as people spend so much times in queues (with even MORE males in (formerly) female toilet queue.

Emailing is the best way to get your voice heard. I have emailed them before (about the Borough setup, which was awful. Re this, their 'solution' was to remove all urinals from the (formerly male) toilets, so now there is LESS toilet provision and even more males in female toilets.) If they don't hear from women who object, they won't change anything.

No. The signs on the stairs still had images of urinals and toilets with arrows.

Thank you for this information.

The traditional set up of a door leading to a single sex washroom with cubicles (not fully enclosed) off, has been bodged to fulfil an ‘inclusive’ agenda in many places. Obviously in men’s toilets there would be efficient use of urinals too. A reminder that a universal toilet room (with its own sanitary facilities toilet, washbasin, drying facilities) should open directly onto a circulation space, not be inside a washroom.

Just so people are aware, what the Old Vic did in their previous refurbishment is very much a typical unregulated ‘gender-neutral’ design. They keep the same number of toilets but get rid of the floor-door gap in doors and walls as the main priority for privacy. But then you can’t tell who is in the room with you or if there has been a medical emergency. And there’s ventilation and cleaning problems too.
If the refurbishment had been single sex, there would have been a greater chance the gaps would have been retained as in traditional designs for health and safety. As it is, the Old Vic toilets are the only ones that adhere to building regulations.

Southwark Playhouse haven’t refurbished their toilets at all from single sex designs so are breaking current building regs. Cubicles are permitted to lead out onto single sex accommodation. The Health and Safety Executive states, for Document T : ‘A single-sex cubicle can be built with a gap at the bottom or the top of cubicle partitions and on the cubicle doors as per Type C and Type D of AD T guidance. These two types are clearly labelled as not self-contained and intended only for single-sex environments.’
(pers comm, HSE 2024).

Then there’s the National Gallery at Trafalgar Square, with it’s two rooms marked gender neutral - which suggest they had been previously separate gents & ladies. It illustrates the common problem of reducing the number of available facilities so the turnover is slower. Again it sounds like the cubicles are not designed to be rooms leading directly off on to a circulation space. The reason to not have private rooms within another ‘lobby’ area is for health and safety.
Obviously with this system you lose urinals which are a cheap, space saving and safe way of creating quick facility turnover so more space can be given to women for equality.

I noticed in June that the Young Vic had reverted to separate men's and women's toilets, at least on the ground floor. I visited the Old Vic last week and can confirm that the toilets on the top level are now separate men's and women's facilities. I was also at Southwark Playhouse Borough last week and unfortunately they haven't changed the combined facilities with an open door to the corridor leading to the auditorium, flimsy cubicle doors and walls wih huge gaps so the cubicles can be seen right into, and a tight squeeze to get past if anyone is standing at the hand-washing trough (impossible without physical contact).

On my London trip, I also visited the National Gallery at Trafalgar Square, which had 2 rooms marked gender neutral - clearly had been previously separate gents & ladies. Inside were totally enclosed cubicles, each including hand washing and drying facilities, which naturally take up more space and also slow the rate at which people leave the cubicle. I chose one of the rooms and waited in a queue of women. It was hilarious when a man entered, looked at the queue and angrily exclaimed "Oh, there's a queue in here too." The only 1 bit of satisfaction I get from mixed sex toilets is men's fury at having to wait in a queue to use the toilet for once in their life!

I hope The Globe follows suit

Sounds like a shift in the right direction, however, keep your eyes peeled for the next tactic:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5588698-our-facilities-are-places-of-privacy-dignity-and-respect-we-ask-you-not-to-approach-or-question-anyone-about-their-use-of-facilities-as-this-could-constitute-harassment

Good news. It caused me to hesitate before buying tickets. They still have supremely uncomfortable seats, and often go without an interval. I guess you can't have everything.

Great. But I'm still a little wary about how they'd actually define 'woman' in practice, and whether they'd comply with the clarified Equality Act if some bloke decided he was still entitled to use the wrong space.

Excellent - and see how easy and simple it was to do. Sex based rights protected, and alternative provision for those who so desire. Good to see the grown ups in charge are making sensible decisions.

Oh good! I'm there in a few weeks time.

Well Old Vic, that wasn't so hard now, was it?

I'm another one that has avoided the Old Vic for years because of their toilets. This is good news.

Hurrah!