Teacher upset with my child questioning about trans child

Let's face it, plenty of 4 or 5 year olds declare that when they are grown up they want to marry their mum/dad/teacher!

Is this anger in the room with you?

What’s an illness ? Not wanting to take part in the lie that is the ability to change sex ? Not wanting our children to be taught it as though it’s fact ? I couldn’t care less what people want to do with their own lives. But when it comes to being gaslighted into taking part in the lie and watch the resulting erosion of hard fought for natal womens’ rights. No thanks.

To be honest, I'd be extremely concerned about ANY 4 or 5yo child declaring, indicating or being labelled as to whom they're sexually attracted to at their age.

There's no issue if a young boy has stereotypically 'feminine' characteristics, or a young girl is a tomboy; but when it comes to sexual attraction - identifying or being identified as gay, straight, bisexual or whatever - this is clearly deeply inappropriate and seriously disturbing at their age.

None of these are like-for-like, though. Those are logical, factual differences: people do have different skin colours; people do have different characteristics and personalities; some people do have disabilities and deformities - although with disabilities, it's logical for children to be able to understand if somebody was previously able-bodied but then they had an accident or illness meaning that they are now disabled.

Just as none of the children are questioning the fact that some children are girls and some are boys, but it's the idea that you can change from one to the other that is completely illogical and perplexing; I think they would be (reasonably) just as curious if a child with a particular skin colour suddenly changed and had a very different one - especially if all of the adults were nonchalantly accepting it as normal, pretending that they'd always been that way and nothing had ever changed, apart from maybe that everybody was 'wrong' before and have now been 'corrected'.

A bit like all of the attention that Michael Jackson received about his skin colour: nobody was remotely surprised or bothered that a man could be black, or that a man could be (or appear) white; but it was the idea that the same person could somehow change from one to the other, with nobody ever being 'allowed' to query it, that was so very unbelievable to many people.

@Lacksie believes that people can change sex and that children can be literally born in the wrong body. People who don't believe this are ignorant and don't understand that these things are true.

Is that right @Lacksie ?

When we're discussing children - especially young children - being gaslit that it's possible to change sex, that their bodies can be flawed but a sex change is the cure - then it's not surprising that there's sometimes anger.

Child abuse always generates anger. Sometimes it's essential and sometimes, to be fair, it's unhelpful.

What all responsible adults should be clear about is that no child is a transsexual, no child is born in the wrong body and no child's body needs correcting with drugs or surgery. Transactivism has no place in schools and children confused about the reality of their birth sex need care, compassion and informed therapy from adults without an agenda.

That was in response to what people don't understand about the issue. The anger is self evident across this board- especially when anyone comes along with a different perspective.

a natural expression of human diversity

If it were this it wouldn't need surgery, hormones and everyone else pretending, would it?

'Gender non conforming' is however a natural expression of human diversity. There are many ways to be a man or a woman, a boy or a girl; these don't need to conform to imposed stereotypes.

None of that is 'anger' though.

Only for very small children. Over 8 and loos must be separated by sex.

So if it is not an ideology or a mental illness, what is it?

If a child is genuinely ‘born in the wrong body’ what does that mean?

Many things. For example, they treat being trans as an ideology rather than a natural expression of human diversity. They routinely frame trans identities in terms of mental illness, delusion, dishonesty, pretence or even child abuse. These narratives are rooted in misinformation, fear and moral panic, and demonstrate a profound lack of understanding of trans people and their experiences

Oh dear, you apparently have toilets on the brain! Read it again 😂

You should believe them. I took my son out of school for the same reason. Kids aged 6-8 were given a class on gender ideology and also told to 'get on board' because there was a trans child in the school. I'm sure I'm not the only parent to have had this experience.

I would hope so. I have been deleted for saying similar though.

In my experience MNHQ are very good at recognising factual comments that are clearly evidenced.

Careful, you'll get deleted for pointing that out 🙄

This is a feature, not a bug

intelligent people respect others and don’t care what they do so long as they’re kind to others.

This seems to be doing the rounds on other threads atm, must be the 'gotcha du jour'.

Live and let live, as another insisted - while in the next sentence stating she doesn't care if anyone doesn't like her opinions (telling us off for wanting women's spaces to be for women).

Can you really not see how illogical this is? It all sounds so nice and reasonable until you begin to unpick it.

Live and let live - as long as it's not something I disagree with!

Its not an argument.

Intelligence =/= respecting other people.
I've met many intelligent people who aren't particularly respectful.

Also, respect =/= agree with.

Or is this an attempt at an insult - people who don't agree with you aren't intelligent?

Gaslighting and lying to children is not 'kind'.

Encouraging children to believe they need drugs and surgery to be acceptable is not kind.

Failing to safeguard children appropriately is not kind.

That's a perfectly harmless white lie because there are no circumstances where it is reasonable and proportionate to exclude all brunettes from something because otherwise blondes would suffer a material disadvantage. If those circumstances were an actual thing, and if when dyeing your hair blonde you nevertheless retained whatever crucial differences it was that disadvantaged the natural blondes, then it would absolutely be problematic and I would expect legislation to clarify that when circumstances require blondes to have separate facilities or opportunities, that applies to genetically natural blondes only. Thank goodness that's just a thought experiment because hair colour really is a spectrum and you'd have to specify an exact pantone shade for a cutoff, whereas fortunately sex really isn't a spectrum and every possible unusual disorder of sexual development is nevertheless still binary in being either male or female, never anything in-between. There is no halfway point between egg and sperm.

Can you quote the ‘anger’ that you seeing here?

And what is it you think people don’t understand?

The anger isn't over a difference, it's over the lying, gas lighting and ignoring of basic child protection.

The level of obsession and anger that people have over a minority difference they clearly don't understand , that affects a very small number of people through no fault of their own.