Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Graham Linehan on the chapter about him in Jon Ronson's new book

511 replies

impossibletoday · 29/08/2026 21:50

Graham Linehan on Jon Ronson's new book

My ex-friend Jon Ronson may be a case study in the corrupting toxicity of trans ideology. An interesting read.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/29278d258cf0921b

My ex-friend Jon Ronson may be a case study in the corrupting toxicity of trans ideology

His book chapter about me stands as an indictment of him and the cowardly social class of people who refuse to confront uncomfortable truths

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/29278d258cf0921b

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
ElenOfTheWays · 30/08/2026 22:54

BEAchDays2 · 30/08/2026 07:39

Does anyone know what sort of causes for women’s rights Graham fights for outside the trans debate?

Wow. You really thought you did something there, didn't you? 😂

napody · 30/08/2026 22:26

Taytoface · 30/08/2026 17:49

I can't agree with much of what is on this thread. Whilst Glinner has not been wrong about much of what he has raised on the damage and madness of the TRAs, he has become totally unhinged. He lacks any sense of perspective and attacks people who agree with him if they are even vaguely critical of his methods. And his methods are I think at times really distasteful. And don't help in making the reasonable arguments he is trying to make.

He has lost so much. He is clearly very brittle. What I want for him most of all, is for him to leave this behind and go back to being the creative genius that he is. He has done his bit.

On the contrary, I think your view is very much in line with most posts on this thread.

Manyanamanyana · 30/08/2026 22:19

YouHaveAnArse · 30/08/2026 12:10

Well, you can look at the Wikipedia page on it for a start. Internet is good for helping you look up terms you don't know. This board alone is full of shibboleths that are meaningless to those not already entrenched in GC discussion.

But if you're going to be disingenuous and pretend that something that's been widely discussed enough to have academic papers written about it as a sociolinguistic phenomenon being mentioned but not spelt out for you is some form of sly "TRA rhetoric", then my time is probably better spent pairing my clean socks.

One of the enduring social issues, just one of many small things, resulting from this trans insanity, is that Wikipedia is no longer a neutral source (captured by trans ideology) and academia is similarly no longer reputable. I honestly can't see either of them as a decent resource for facts these days. It's a real shame, and an enduring legacy of an ideology that has infiltrated much further than it ever should have. I think if Graham had lost some of his equilibrium, there are many of us on his side of the argument who can understand and relate to the rage he feels over what has been done, and what needs to be undone.

UtopiaPlanitia · 30/08/2026 19:01

Datun · 30/08/2026 08:32

Ronson has argued in his book that the friendship became strained because Linehan was consumed with anger over the transgender debate, and lost all “polite, mannered civility” as he campaigned against gender ideology online.

What an indictment. Even using the concept of 'loss of manners' is so telling.

It's the bloody Bananarama argument again. It's not what he said, it's the way he said it.

From those two articles Ronson was blaming Linehan for his own reaction and allowing only that to negate his argument! Never mind the rapist attacking incarcerated women, or the psychopath killing Mitchfest lesbians. He's wringing his bloody hands over Graham's rage.

No one will fail to understand how numerous people do not want to put their head above the parapet for fear of their career, friends, status.

But this is different. This is blaming somebody else for doing exactly that. And getting all fucking prissy about it because it was messy for Linehan.

edited ad, I'm wondering why I'm finding it so infuriating.

I think because there's a massive element of Jesus wept man, you lost everything for the sake of women's rights, what the fuck is wrong with you??

it's barely concealed. In fact, I'm pretty certainly he doesn't even notice how that runs through it like a stick of rock.

Edited

I'd also like to point out that as well as belief differences, there are different cultural backgrounds involved in this as well.

As an Irish woman, I agree with Linehan that we have different types of social behaviour in Ireland than in England. And also, like Linehan, I've been on the end of a patronising telling off from middle-class English people for saying something that is perfectly normal in Ireland (i.e. blunt) and yet considered impolite in middle-class England. It's very frustrating to be on the receiving end of the 'fainting couch vapours' behaviour for no good reason.

Datun · 30/08/2026 18:48

It's a real indictment of the paucity of trans arguments, that they resort to well how many years was it before the close of the lesbian Mitchfest and the horrific murder of a lesbian family by the same man who disagreed with it.

And they get it wrong by about nine years.

Seriously, if you're trying to win an argument because of these totally irrelevant details, you've already lost it.

zanahoria · 30/08/2026 18:46

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 30/08/2026 17:47

Having fallen down the Michfest rabit hole, I've learnt a few things, like who coin the phrase 'transphobe' and that the word TERF goes back to Michfest.

There's an article on Twitter written by some called lorelie that was very interesting, long but very detailed re Michfest and it's demise.

It seems the 'trans'taliban ruined a good thing, another reason to despise this ideology.

https://x.com/hatpinwoman/article/2048807147748647383

So, with beauty in mind, I will end this with words by Sara St.Martin Lynne. She wrote this in the book “Female Erasure” as part of a much longer letter, and it is a paean, or a rallying cry, for women:
“…That Land has taken root inside thousands upon thousands of women and girls. And She will grow. And we will grow. There is a wilderness in each and every one of us that will never be tamed, re-named or erased. Our cells have shifted. Our DNA has been altered.

Sorry for the derail but that's the thing about MN it sends you in all directions, the more you learn the more you know.

It was only when I read about Michfest that I truly understood this issue

MyAmpleSheep · 30/08/2026 18:41

PerkyBlueZebra · 30/08/2026 17:05

But River’s only documented connection with camp trans is attending one of the protests. No evidence of being an organiser, founder, key figure in the movement or even a regular attendee. Those were all floated as possibilities after Rivers was charged and ultimately found to be baseless.

Ronson didn’t include the murders in the piece, I think it was the right decision.

If Rivers had been a key figure in camp trans, the victims had attended then yeah, it should have been included. Graham’s making up that is the case and getting annoyed about what he made up.

The truth is he got some mild criticism and has spun out to a ludicrous degree and doesn’t care about the accuracy of his accusations and it’s a repeating pattern

That’s enough from me!

But River’s only documented connection with camp trans is attending one of the protests.

I'm afraid I'm not a scholar of this area, but I do note that one can be a pivotal or important figure without having a "documented" connection. I asked Google "was rivers a key figure in camp trans" and the answer came back overwhelmingly a positive 'yes', with examples and citations. Perhaps that's a biased answer, and those examples and citations are inaccurate, but It's not perhaps as clear cut as you suggest.

BackToLurk · 30/08/2026 18:22

What I find interesting about these threads is the absolute conviction that a middle-aged professional man can be negatively impacted by online communities or being ‘terminally online’ coming from the same people that don’t think online communities could have any negative impacts on ND teenagers.

sandgreen · 30/08/2026 18:20

Taytoface · 30/08/2026 17:49

I can't agree with much of what is on this thread. Whilst Glinner has not been wrong about much of what he has raised on the damage and madness of the TRAs, he has become totally unhinged. He lacks any sense of perspective and attacks people who agree with him if they are even vaguely critical of his methods. And his methods are I think at times really distasteful. And don't help in making the reasonable arguments he is trying to make.

He has lost so much. He is clearly very brittle. What I want for him most of all, is for him to leave this behind and go back to being the creative genius that he is. He has done his bit.

I agree with this - I was a paid up member of his Substack for years until recently. I have never been a fan of his calling out detractors on social media personally (including Ronson). Not that I keep a particularly close eye on these things but it seems to me Ronson has completely ignored him in online debate, has been part of the class making Glinner look like an obsessive yelling into the void, then turned around to humiliate him with an entire chapter in a book about the masculinity crisis. I’d have liked to hear him put his own real argument forward before him doing something as shallow and abusive as this. Unless his chapter vindicates Glinner in some way, it looks like bullying of the worst kind, which is beyond ironic coming from the ‘So You’ve Been Publicly Shamed’ guy.

Taytoface · 30/08/2026 17:49

I can't agree with much of what is on this thread. Whilst Glinner has not been wrong about much of what he has raised on the damage and madness of the TRAs, he has become totally unhinged. He lacks any sense of perspective and attacks people who agree with him if they are even vaguely critical of his methods. And his methods are I think at times really distasteful. And don't help in making the reasonable arguments he is trying to make.

He has lost so much. He is clearly very brittle. What I want for him most of all, is for him to leave this behind and go back to being the creative genius that he is. He has done his bit.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 30/08/2026 17:47

Having fallen down the Michfest rabit hole, I've learnt a few things, like who coin the phrase 'transphobe' and that the word TERF goes back to Michfest.

There's an article on Twitter written by some called lorelie that was very interesting, long but very detailed re Michfest and it's demise.

It seems the 'trans'taliban ruined a good thing, another reason to despise this ideology.

https://x.com/hatpinwoman/article/2048807147748647383

So, with beauty in mind, I will end this with words by Sara St.Martin Lynne. She wrote this in the book “Female Erasure” as part of a much longer letter, and it is a paean, or a rallying cry, for women:
“…That Land has taken root inside thousands upon thousands of women and girls. And She will grow. And we will grow. There is a wilderness in each and every one of us that will never be tamed, re-named or erased. Our cells have shifted. Our DNA has been altered.

Sorry for the derail but that's the thing about MN it sends you in all directions, the more you learn the more you know.

Cover image for "Michfest: Women’s Land and Men’s Rage"

Michfest: Women’s Land and Men’s Rage

Michigan Womyn's Music Festival “Michfest” was a lesbian feminist music festival started by then nineteen year old Lisa Vogel. The event ran from 1976 to 2015. Some of the women who attended, over the

https://x.com/hatpinwoman/article/2048807147748647383

Cailin66 · 30/08/2026 17:34

MrsOvertonsWindow · 30/08/2026 17:05

Advanced search is always revealing when it highlights which posters post on FWR only on GL threads - and then post on those threads repeatedly. 😀

Just saying.

They are also like a tag team. Plus no actual replies when asked directly.

This Michfest is a distraction, pages of it, what matters is transexuals who wanted to be at this lesbian festival resulted in lesbian women having to cancel their women only event because the men wanted to go there and play at at being women. Graham points this out. Queue whinging on here from the trans handmaidens.

Cailin66 · 30/08/2026 17:30

Emilesgran · 30/08/2026 16:26

She’s English, living in England. How likely is it that she would care enough about Irish abortion laws to give up her privacy and hours of her time campaigning for abortion IN IRELAND?

Clearly that came from him, not her.

To be fair to Helen she did make a massive effort over this in support of changing the Irish abortion laws, presumably because she realised what a predicament she would have been if she had been pregnant in Ireland rather than England. But she probably became aware of it because of Graham. Tge stories I heard on the radio were horrendous. Helen and Graham being brave with their own situation was a massive help.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 30/08/2026 17:27

PerkyBlueZebra · 30/08/2026 17:05

But River’s only documented connection with camp trans is attending one of the protests. No evidence of being an organiser, founder, key figure in the movement or even a regular attendee. Those were all floated as possibilities after Rivers was charged and ultimately found to be baseless.

Ronson didn’t include the murders in the piece, I think it was the right decision.

If Rivers had been a key figure in camp trans, the victims had attended then yeah, it should have been included. Graham’s making up that is the case and getting annoyed about what he made up.

The truth is he got some mild criticism and has spun out to a ludicrous degree and doesn’t care about the accuracy of his accusations and it’s a repeating pattern

That’s enough from me!

you may wish to read the piece Pencils has linked to above

Assuming Ronson took the trouble to speak to the women organising the event, when asking 'why didn't you admit these men?', the answer 'one of them murdered two lesbians the year after the festival folded, frankly they gave us the creeps' wouldn't seem like a complete non sequitur, no?

I mean the answer 'because this was a woman only event and we didn't want them there' should be perfectly adequate for anyone who views women as anything other than support animals for men

I do wonder why Ronson never took the trouble to ask the camp trans people why they didn't just organise their own festival. what was so special about Michfest?

the only possible answer of course being the women inside it. feels like you missed a trick there eh jon?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 30/08/2026 17:10

MrsOvertonsWindow · 30/08/2026 17:05

Advanced search is always revealing when it highlights which posters post on FWR only on GL threads - and then post on those threads repeatedly. 😀

Just saying.

Isn't it just....🕵🏻‍♀️

MrsOvertonsWindow · 30/08/2026 17:05

Advanced search is always revealing when it highlights which posters post on FWR only on GL threads - and then post on those threads repeatedly. 😀

Just saying.

PerkyBlueZebra · 30/08/2026 17:05

MyAmpleSheep · 30/08/2026 16:14

It's not relevant as evidence in a legal sense, but this is not a court of law. It's relevant as an illustration of character: the person working to open up the women's festival to men is also a person who went on to murder women. Those women don't need to have been associated with the festival for it to be an illustration of character, and in fact they weren't associated with the festival.

But River’s only documented connection with camp trans is attending one of the protests. No evidence of being an organiser, founder, key figure in the movement or even a regular attendee. Those were all floated as possibilities after Rivers was charged and ultimately found to be baseless.

Ronson didn’t include the murders in the piece, I think it was the right decision.

If Rivers had been a key figure in camp trans, the victims had attended then yeah, it should have been included. Graham’s making up that is the case and getting annoyed about what he made up.

The truth is he got some mild criticism and has spun out to a ludicrous degree and doesn’t care about the accuracy of his accusations and it’s a repeating pattern

That’s enough from me!

heathspeedwell · 30/08/2026 16:49

This is a bit off topic but I'm sure I read somewhere that trans activists hid a fake car bomb under Graham's wife's car. It was so long ago that I can't find any information about it. I seem to recall it was around the time they also used bomb threats or smoke bombs at a women's conference? Does anyone have a link by any chance?

PencilsInSpace · 30/08/2026 16:48

Rivers in his own words on Michfest

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20041218024126/danarivers.net/roomforwomyn.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20041218024126/danarivers.net/roomforwomyn.html

Sorry I forgot MN doesn't like web archive links, you'll have to copy and paste the relevant bit into a browser.

PencilsInSpace · 30/08/2026 16:44

PerkyBlueZebra · 30/08/2026 15:53

Relevant to a piece about a festival that closed at least a decade before the unrelated murders took place?

Am I missing something?

2015 - Michfest closed after 40 years
2016 - Dana Rivers murdered a lesbian couple and their son
2021 - Jon Ronson made a documentary about Michfest

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 30/08/2026 16:31

PerkyBlueZebra · 30/08/2026 15:49

@BernardBlacksMolluscs

I'm glad we're past the point of "Does he even use that language"

I can do the legwork to make a strong case that he now has a strong alignment to the anti-woke / 4chan / redpill culture these days, if you want. I'd probably start with his long, grovelling apology to nazi pug enthusiast Mark Meechan.

I'd like to know the stakes first. If I do that successfully, it reflects badly on Graham and should be taken into account when assessing the man and his words, yeah?

Because a repeating pattern is a demand for evidence; the evidence is given, and the response is "well, I don't care about that anyway; what about this other thing"

Be better not to waste each other's time if that's the case

Edited

I never disputed that linehan used the term npc. I asked for evidence, and for the leap from 'uses term npc' to the dark, veiled accusation 'he is comfortable with people making whatever assumptions they may choose to about someone using the term in 2026' to be explained. my initial quibble was with the ridiculous and evidence free statement that he may now be anti abortion

I find vague, unsupported accusations of wrong think very sloppy and prefer that people say what they actually mean (working on the assumption that they actually know what they mean. In the case of the poster in question I suspect they possibly didn't).

to be honest like @ThisFunSheep I find him pretty crude and think he'd be much happier if he deleted his twitter account. I also agree that that he's genuinely extremely committed, has sacrificed a lot and has made a massive impact, both in the UK and abroad. i doubt you could say anything that would change my mind on that (but obviously feel free to post as the mood takes you).

Emilesgran · 30/08/2026 16:26

BEAchDays2 · 30/08/2026 11:00

So basically, abortion laws, which pretty much was probably led by his wife. Tells me everything I need to know. Won the argument, so thanks all!

She’s English, living in England. How likely is it that she would care enough about Irish abortion laws to give up her privacy and hours of her time campaigning for abortion IN IRELAND?

Clearly that came from him, not her.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 30/08/2026 16:17

MyAmpleSheep · 30/08/2026 16:14

It's not relevant as evidence in a legal sense, but this is not a court of law. It's relevant as an illustration of character: the person working to open up the women's festival to men is also a person who went on to murder women. Those women don't need to have been associated with the festival for it to be an illustration of character, and in fact they weren't associated with the festival.

well yes

why might these women not have wanted to admit these fixated weird men to a women only event? hmm, quite the chin scratcher

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 30/08/2026 16:16

PerkyBlueZebra · 30/08/2026 15:53

Relevant to a piece about a festival that closed at least a decade before the unrelated murders took place?

Am I missing something?

interesting. from some internet searching it looks like while it's contested that the victims attended Michfest, it's uncontested that Dana Rivers was part of camp trans

so if Jon Ronson is doing a piece about camp trans and appears to be making a case that it would be progress to allow 'trans women' into a lesbian, women only festival, then yes, I would say you are missing something, and the fact that one of those 'trans women' went on to brutally murder two lesbians is pretty relevant.

Emilesgran · 30/08/2026 16:16

Lovelyview · 29/08/2026 23:53

If he knows Graham is right then why did he put a whole chapter in his book about it? You'd have thought he wouldn't go there either.

Because he needs the publicity Linehan brings. I don’t think nearly as many people would bother with his book otherwise.