Organisations refusing to give their single sex spaces policy - David Lloyd for example

Let's go easy on UnderTheCedarTree, it sounds like they're trying to negotiate a very difficult situation

They don't sound genuine to me. Even if my child did not support single sex spaces she would be far too afraid of using the women's changing for fear of looks or even abuse (although this has always come from men.) She would always prefer to hide away in a cubicle.

I cannot imagine how horrendous it must be to live with someone you love with all your heart, but who also demands that you accept a blatant, fundamental lie or they'll kill themselves. What parent cannot read that choice and feel how crushingly miserable that situation is?

This ideology is utterly utterly horrendous. Actually I'm struggling to find the words.

@UndertheCedartree I’m sorry to hear your troubles and I hope you’re all getting the support you need. That must be a frightening situation for a parent.

I've not had dealings with them myself but have seen these people referred to on here as a support group for parents of trans identified children: www.bayswatersupport.org.uk

Strange how it appears to be only men who have a problem using the correct ( ie male) facilities . I have never heard of a woman who claims to be a man insisting on using male facilities .
Wonder why ?

We have had genuine male trans people on this board tell us there was no way they would be moving from the female single sex provision even if a mixed sex additional alternative was provided.

There are many male trans people who declare that they are genuine all over social media telling women that they won’t be othered by mixed sex provisions. It is an intimidation tactic but I believe that there is no way some of them will use the mixed sex alternative.

What is a “ genuine “ trans person ?

I'm sure genuine trans people would use the mixed sex room

You are obviously very new to this. Be prepared for many unpleasant surprises.

Fair enough, I was just going on my own experience. There is a sign in our changing room saying over 8 have to use the room for their sex or the mixed sex room. If that is not being kept to then that is wrong. I'm sure genuine trans people would use the mixed sex room, but I understand the issue.

But it appears that DL include men who say they are women in the category of women. So “single sex” is meaningless in their establishments.

I don't know what you mean. David Lloyd has a mixed sex changing room that has single cubicles. You can use the women's changing room if you want a single sex space. You aren't driven away or excluded.

i am sorry for your experiences.

You blithely answered “they can use a cubicle” as an answer to the question as to why women don’t want men in their single sex changing rooms because there might be a man there. What did you mean by that then? Why is the solution, as far as you are concerned, for someone like me to be excluded and driven away, rather than expecting men not to enter women’s single sex spaces?

Yes, yes of course I’ll get flamed for this but i don’t really care. I’m GC - I don’t believe anyone can change sex, and think women are entitled to penis-free spaces. Yet I’m sympathetic to the plight of some trans people, recognise they exist & aren’t going anywhere, so it’s important we start to make space for them. They’re human beings like everyone else. It’s honestly become so boring and pointless hearing people constantly complain, worry and bang on about a situation that is very, very unlikely to ever happen to them!! Firstly, only 0.1% of the population are trans women. How many of those trans women do you think would be bold enough to get naked in a changing room surrounded by women, with their dick swinging about all over the place?? I’d say about 0.001%. That would be the behaviour of a sex offender, not a regular trans woman. Because everyone, even the trans woman, knows it’s not appropriate for a penis to be hanging out in a women’s changing room. Also, trans women hate the fact they have a penis, they want to be seen as women, so why on earth would they want their penis to be seen? 99% of them will be changing in cubicles. And it sounds like the 1% of freaks with a fetish who want to expose themselves will not be allowed in the women’s changing room anyway. David Lloyd’s ‘case-by-case’ policy sounds sensible and fair to me. They’re only able to have a case-by-case policy because trans members are so rare! Even in Brighton. So you can imagine how rare they are in other places. Case-by-case is considering the needs & comfort of all people- eg. A fully post-op trans woman would at worst be at risk of serious harm in the men’s, and and at best, find the experience humiliating. Whereas in the women’s it’s unlikely anyone would even notice! Their body looks female and they have no penis. Them using the women’s makes the most sense for everyone in that situation. However, if a big hairy “trans woman” comes in who clearly just self-IDs as trans, and hasn’t had any surgery, it would be inappropriate for him to use the women’s. It sounds like this is exactly what David Lloyd are doing. They’re trying to be inclusive, but not to the detriment of women’s safety, which is commendable. And also very tough for an organisation. But all this worry about it is all totally pointless anyway because I guarantee no one on this thread has ever or will ever see a man with their penis hanging out in a women’s changing room!! It’s like someone starting a thread about being concerned about being hit by lightning and asking how to avoid it - for which the chances are probably higher. Everyone would think they were mental 🤣

She's not. I already said she uses the single cubicles for any sex. She believes in single sex spaces for women. I have had the same experience as you. She understands the reason.I am sorry that happened to you.

Does your child use women's single sex provisions? Because if they do, they are part of the tra campaign and problem, I'm afraid.

I know you love your child, but that's not a pass to violate women's privacy and dignity.

Would you like to point out where I did that? In the first paragraph I referenced trans people without judgment. If you actually READ what I wrote instead of leaping to feeling hard done by, you'll see I was saying I'd have supported trans people in a campaign for additional gender neutral spaces.

In the second paragraph onwards I referenced TRAs and their behaviour. There is a distinction between 'trans people in general' and 'Trans Rights Activists'.

I'm sorry for how your child feels but perhaps he needs to be helped to accept his male body rather than everyone pretending he's a woman. But if - IF - he's using women-only spaces then yeah, in that scenario he's part of the problem.